Dear Alan,
May be I expressed myself badly. Now the participal genitive karontassa
"doing" qualifies me that syntactically is dependent on kaaya "my body", and
my kaaya became "tired" kilanta by doing the work. kamma is accusative
syntactically dependent upon karontassa qualifying me as doing something
viz. kamma. As I explained in my previous post the present participle
sometimes is used to denote the action which is the cause of the action of
the main verb, in the present case kilanta "tired". That is the reason why I
introduced by, cf. the use of French en with present participles. This usage
which is not uncommon in Sanskrit - it is described by Panini - is often
overlooked, although it is quite common i Pali, and often misinterpreted by
translators. I have nothing against the translation "while doing the work."
Hope this made the issue crystal clear.
Regards,
Ole Pind
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra:
Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Alan
McClure
Sendt: 20. oktober 2005 14:39
Til:
Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [Pali] Re: Warder Exercises - [F0014] ex. 11 part 2/2
Dear John,
Thanks for catching that. The more I learn, the more I realize that I have
made a number of mistakes in previous translations.
I do remember, however, that I found this passage a bit tricky when I worked
on it.
I was all ready to tell you that of course you are right about the genitive
absolute, but then Dr. Pind responded (which I thank him for) by saying he
can't recall a case of the genitive absolute that he had ever seen. This
really confused me because I thought "how can genitive mean 'by' or 'from'
as he has translated it?", but then I remembered Warder page 57 where he
mentions that the genitive case can sometimes be used fairly loosely
(especially with participles) acting as either the agent or the patient, and
often taking on the meaning that is usually reserved for other cases, i.e.,
instrumental or accusative. I don't know if this really answers the question
since it is the participle which is in the genitive case and would still
make sense to me to gloss it as genitive absolute, but if Dr. Pind says that
it is not, perhaps it is because the meaning of the genitive is one of those
cases above of it being used loosely which is why it can be translated as
"by." Then again, I have to admit that I still don't fully understand the
analysis of this passage, so more discussion would be beneficial for me at
least.
That said, this is what I have come up with after correcting a few errors:
*[D.III.255 xxxiii.(Sangiiti).3.1.(iv)]* aha.m [per pro/nom/1^st sg] I
kho [indec] indeed kamma.m [n-a/nom/sg] work akaasi.m. [karàkaa VI/aor/1^st
sg] I worked/ I did
lit: Indeed I did do work
I did work
kamma.m [n-a/nom/sg] work
kho [indec] indeed
pana [enc/indec] but/however
me [enc/per pro/gen/1^st sg] me
karontassa [kar VI/ppr/gen/sg] by doing
kaayo [m-a/nom/sg] body
kilanto, [kilam I/pp/nom/sg] tired
handa[indec] well
aha.m[per pro/nom/1^st sg] I
handa [indec] well
aha.m [per pron/nom/1^st sg] I
nipajjaami[ni+pad III/ind act/1^st sg] I lie down
lit: (I worked,) But work indeed, my body is tired by doing it. So, I am
lying down.
(I worked,) but my body grew tired from working. So now I am lying down.
What do you think? Should "kamma.m" in the second passage be accusative or
nominative; I'm not really sure? It seems oddly placed.
Metta,
Alan
John Kelly wrote:
>Dear Alan,
>
>In the exercise below you have analysed 'karontassa' as gen/sg of a
>presumed noun 'karonta' meaning 'doer'.
>
>I believe, however, that this is actually the gen/sg of the present
>participle of the verb 'karoti', thus literally 'of doing'. So I take
>this as the genitive absolute construction (see Warder p.56) meaning
>'while doing'. This fits the sentence well.
>"I did the work. While doing it, my body tired, so now I am lying down."
>
>What do you think?
>
>With metta,
>John
>
>--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "alanmcclure3" <alanmcclure3@...> wrote:
>
>
>>Warder
>>Exercise 11 part 2/2
>>
>>[D.III.255 xxxiii.(Sa'ngiiti).3.1.(iv)]
>>
>>
>aha.m [per pro/nom/1st sg] I
>kho [indec] indeed
>kamma.m [n-a/nom/sg] work
>akaasi.m. [karàkaa VI/aor/1st sg] I worked/ I did
>lit: Indeed I did do work
>I did work
>
>kamma.m [n-a/nom/sg] work
>kho [indec] indeed
>pana [enc/indec] but/however
>me [enc/per pro/gen/1st sg] me
>karontassa [m-a/gen/sg] doer
>kaayo [m-a/nom/sg] body
>kilanto, [kilam I/pp/nom/sg] tired
>handa[indec] well
>aha.m[per pro/nom/1st sg] I
>handaaha.m [compound?] well, I
>nipajjaami[ni+pad III/ind act/1st sg] I lie down
>lit: But, indeed, while I, the doer, worked, my body tired. Well, I am
>lying down But as I worked, I became tired, and so now I am going to
>lie down.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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