Dear Thomas, Leo and friends,
There is a short discussion of the state in Chula Vedella Sutta
(Majjhime Nikaaye) and in the VisuddhiMagga
The way of purity. Tr. By Bhikhu NanaMoli.
Further, Hope I will not burden you too much with the following
explanation; It is conjectural, maybe even speculative.
A risk, I believe necessary for these hanging-in-the-air questions.
1 The Blessed One, the Buddha discovered the meditative states of
form absorptions `RuupaJhanas',
Which are based on the high moral standarts `Siila', he adopted
Through his many former lives as a `Bodhisattva'.
(This was suggested by the Venerable Ajahn BrahmaVamso
In his booklet `Aanaapaanasati').
2 because of that, He alone was able to tame the effectual
capabilities of the mind
`Vedaana' or maybe, the `unconsciousness'.
`The virtue of the cognitive aspect (sann¯a) is to understand and
Discriminate correctly; its vice is delusion and error. The virtue
Of the nonrational part of the psyche is to sense, feel, and respond
Affectively in an appropriate manner; its vice is to swing to the
Extremes of craving (raga) and aversion (dosaa)
(Keown, the Nature of Buddhist Ethics'. P- 67)
3 It is suggested that `sanna' is connected to the conscious aspect
of the psych,
This is related to the practice of insight vipassana, in order to
overcome ignorance, avijja,
The deepest aspect of the second truth of the source of suffering
`DhukaSumuda ariyasacca'.
`Vedaana' complements the mind awareness of the effectual,
unconscious aspect,
Which is rooted in instincts assavaa,
And manifest as craving tanhaa.
(translating assavaa as influences, or out/influxes actually confirm
the changing nature of both needs And evolutionary, innate
responses.)
The pleasant leads to attraction lobhaa and the unpleasant to
aversion dosaa.
Vedaana is the deep, hidden part of the personality and is dealt
with by the practice of `Samathaa' composure, calm concentration.
4 the practices of the former yogi teachers were of the formless
absorptions
Aruupajhanaa, which are actually a practice of sati, mindfulness
rooted, admittedly, in a deep religious experience, an expanded
consciousness, if you will.
They are the possible practice of one who does not penetrate in
to `the development of the body' which is the form absorptions
ruupajhanaa.
These only will be referred to hence as jhaanaa.
The fourth jhaanaa, though, in which the practitioner pervades all
with his
Bright `light of mind' has the ability of relating to these
practices, it seems, as a necessary connection, avenues of mind
development and knowledge of reality.
(the Venerable Ajhan Dhammadaro even calls them `Baahira' external
practices).
5 the proper practice of jhaanaa, as we said, enables one to
actually `narrow his field of concentration(), to a powerful spot
light of attention, we had described the progress of the
Jhaanaa in `the real way' paper.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ju_buddha/files/8-pages-on-the%
208foldpath.doc
Basically, it is a growing detailed examination of the body
properties, projected as the world, the relation rooted in the
blessed one dictum
`The world, I declare, is found within this fathom long body.'
In the process, the notion of `naamaa kaaya' a mind made body is
examined,()
It is a proper yogic power of enhancement, of a sort, of the ability
to sense
Touch, feel our own body, `from the inside' so to speak, made much
of and deeply inquired into.
It is suggested that the `different jhaanaa are different, existing
layers
(An amazing natural, axiomatic determination, maybe similar to the
electron paths around the atom nucleolus)
Of density of feeling, but they are based on the actual, practical,
body properties.
The four then, relate to:
1 the full body, experience as one solid presence...
2 the muscular tonal difference between the gross external five limbs
(External from the heart): hands, feet, neck and head.
3 the internal organs.
(the ability to distinguish/blend autonomous/controlled functions)
4 the brain.
6 `Any recluse who attempts a separate description of Sanna
perception, (according to Venerable Ajahn Maha Boowa it is Memory)
Vedaana feeling (or shallow, immediate, cognition)
And vinnana `consciousness', I say it cannot be done'
(A quote of the Buddha, from memory)
This important quotation indicates two vital facts:
6.1 The very analysis, of the meditative states, was also introduced
by the Blessed one
The Blessed one refers to himself as `VibhaJavadin' an Analyst,
thereby, and later qualify 'wisdom'
'natti panna ajhayato''(there is) no analysis like insight'
(the Blessed one, where from?).
6.2 As we seen, the very practice of Dhamma, development of mind and
development of wisdom, samathavipassanaa, is based on the Blessed
one deep insight.
While for a worldling puthujjaa, it is not possible to differentiate
Mind into it's the above described components,
This lack of ability, which is also a deep truth, forms a different
point of view.
The modern research of the brain indicates that there are no
`Dedicated areas' as to capabilities for storing memory,
Yet, we have certain areas connected by practical associations and
resemblance so that, for example, `there would be a certain area
Where we remember chairs', seeing a familiar face will generate much
more activity in the `facial memories area' than a stranger face,
and so on
'
(is it from `inquiring mind' magazine ? I wonder)
It is easy to see then, the source of many human problems, as
the `circulation of information in the brain, unavoidably mixes
an `emotional content.'
(memory, from an atlas of anatomy, I think)
At the same time, a modern notion is of the brain plasticity, the
ability to change, recover and rearrange, but it is the same from
the outset,
Conditioned as `sankhaara'.
Funny, enough, it reminds one of the problems of change and
selflessness, the very uncompromising deepest `depth'.
6.3 But the quotation is also, back to our direct subject, an
indication
That the state of SA~n~naa-vedayita-nirodha `neither perception
nor
Feeling' is a state of `arrest of consciousness', which
is `Nirodha'.
(This multi-level discourse, the different precision of reference
will be familiar to Dhamma inquirers. I believe, directing, as we
have so often seen, to different audiences, and a further, perfect
example of skillful means).
7 There by a decisive step from
7.1 The `day dream like' state of Sa~n~aa-
naasa~n~naayatana, `neither perception nor non-perception', where
consciousness is only partial,
With constant changing of intensity of awareness,
The columniation of the formless `aaruppaa Jhaanaa' recognized by
other Indian practitioners, his former teachers,
A state where ignorance still holds a `self', a personality of an
observer, who sees `objectively'.
7.2 Sati mindfulness, is not a discovery of the Buddha, but may be
The very definition of the human
`Just as animals have the four body postures as a resort,
Man has the four bases of mindfulness as a resort'
(Satipatthanasamyuta, sanyuta nikaaye)
7.3 For a Buddhist practitioner, the `black box' has to be examined,
By The satipa.t.thaana method which breaks, analyses and disposes of
The notion of a self, through the analysis of the aggregates.
The released one `had fully understood the four bases of
mindfulness'
(Same)
`We learn about the self so that we can forget the self
(Dogen)
Some, possibly but arguably, (the old discussion of
Vipassana'samatha) may not been able to do so because the mind is
not powerful enough, was not released by the practice of jhaanaa.
8 the state of SA~n~naa-vedayita-nirodha `neither perception nor
Feeling', `nirodha' is a technical synonym of Nibbaana' as when no
consciousness found, there `The world ends'.
9 According to the `Tipitaka' it is available to Arahante and
anagami's only, saints who have mastered Right concentration Sama
Samadhi (Which are the Jhanaa).
this conforms with the above as the state of Anagami 'nonreturner'
involes the surpassing of the fetters of
'Kama' desire and Aviyapada illwill, clearly affective roots
associated with feeling.
9.1 Just in order to represent fairly the different views of the
matter,
There is a suggestion that the state of `Nirodha'
Is but a further `exercise' of Samadhi, and does not signify
an `ariye' noble, saintly state
(Venerable Ajahn Tate `the biography of a forest monk'
But again, from my memory)
If that is so, may be, the reports of several Indian `fakirs'
Who were `buried alive' unconscious for weeks and emerged unharmed,
May refer to similar `meditative power'.
And see for example Papaji, the late Indian guru, recounts of his
death
In a former incarnation- as a Buddhist monk!
10 the process of states may be the earliest description of
the `enlightenment process',
also that experienced by the `Blessed one' himself !
The `decisive point' is not the attainment of `nirodha`,
Which is an `abhi.nha', the attainment of `ceto vimmuti'
`Release of mind'
But coming back from the state and `seeing with wisdom'
`Panna vimuti'.
The `release by wisdom', is the heart of the
teaching `Buddhasaasane' the religion of enlightenment.
Therefore, as is said in Thailand, `Silena nibbuti.m yanti'!
p.s. as I try to propagate the teachings of Buddhism,
I hope it will not seems as hurting others, but
The term `Hindu', the designation of a unified religion is of a much
later, modern even, historical stage.
Actually, the practices and beliefs in India were many and diverse,
More like a collection of cults.
I guess in former times, (possibly, in some quarters, today too)
For many, locally based, there was no distinction.
Not always a weakness but affirmation of the spirit of freedom.
The teaching should be seen as of that context, but of course, also
of much beyond that
India was shaped also by Buddhaa and it is `only there that a Buddha
may appear'
Bh. Jothiko
Any criticism, proper referencing, right translations of quotations
And deservable rebuke are highly welcome.
Metta
Bh. Jothiko
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Leo (All Intelligent Views Exchange)"
<leoaive@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> As I know Buddha learned meditation from ascetics. I am not sure
if
> Hindu had a practice of self mortification. I think it was some
other
> group of people, practicing some supernatural ways. I would not
think
> Hindu would make them very acceptable with those practices for
their
> group of people.
>
> With metta
> Leo
>
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "thomaslaw03" <thomaslaw03@...>
wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Before the Buddha attained enlightenment, he learnt meditation
from
> the
> > two Hindu gurus, and attainted the meditation states,
> > aaki~nca~n~naayata and then n'eva sa~n~aa-naasa~n~naayatana.
That
> mean,
> > these two meditation states are from the Hindu tradition. How
about
> > this final meditation state, sa~n~naa-vedayita-nirodha (nirodha-
> > samaapatti)? Does this state also come from or share with the
Hindu
> > meditation tradition? Or it is entirely a Buddhist meditation
> state,
> > not being shared with the Hindu tradition? Please give me
advice.
> Thank
> > you.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Thomas Law
> >
>