Dear John, Rett, Robert, Gunnar, Alan and friends,

thanks for the interesting discussion. First of all, I have to clarify that there is no intention on my part to translate the Buddha's teachings with sexist meaning. I have read that of ancient China and India, ancient China is far more secular (in religious ideology) than ancient India. I have yet to read a report on which is more sexist, though I fear both patriarchical societies can be equally sexist, although China ever briefly had one woman emperor.

1. I translate devamanussaana.m as "of men and gods", rather than "of gods and men". This is because in Pali, the emphasis is on the last term. Or, rather the sequence is opposite to English. For example, candasuriya = sun and moon, rather than "moon and sun".

2. The use of 'man' for manussa is by convention. I am not sure if all previous translations carry any sexist intent. And even 'god' is a maculine term, for its feminine equivalent is 'goddess'. So, it is understood that devamanussaa refers to "human and celestial beings". I am not sure if such a term is too much to swallow. I would suggest that we use either 'men and gods' or 'human and celestial beings' for the matter of style (as Rett suggested).

3. I think puggala should mean an individual or a person. I have alternated between 'man' and 'person' simply to put things in the right historical perspective that Buddha Gotama is a man. :)

I have then looked at the commentary, which is rather long, and have selected a few lines which I hope is relevant to this discussion.

Eko: dutiyaadipa.tikkhepattho ga.nanaparicchedo.
Eka: in contrast to the meaning of second and so on, an exact number.

Puggalo: sammutikathaa, na paramatthakathaa.
Puggala: in a general/loose sense, not an ultimate/strict sense.

Buddhassa hi bhagavato duvidhaa desanaa - sammutidesanaa, paramatthadesanaa ca.
The instruction of the Buddha, indeed the Blessed One, is (in) two mode(s) - general instruction, and ultimate instruction.

Tattha "puggalo satto itthii puriso khattiyo braahma.no devo maaro"ti evaruupaa sammutidesanaa.
In this case, the general instruction is such: "an individual, a sentient being, a woman, a man, an aristocrat, a priest, a god, a devil".

Iti eko ca so puggalo caati ekapuggalo.
Ekapuggala: that one person.

Kena.t.thena (also kenatthena) ekapuggalo?
[Lit: By what meaning is ekapuggala?]
How is the term 'that one person' to be understood?

Asadisa.t.thena gu.navisi.t.tha.t.thena asamasama.t.thenaati.
[Lit: By the meaning of incomparable, distinguished virtue, not exactly the same.]
It is to be understood as someone incomparable, of distinguished virtue, not exactly ordinary.

There is no evidence that the 'person' here refers to the Buddha, but to anyone achieving the Buddhahood. I merely want to bring to the light that such a person had lived and walked the earth, covering by foot a much greater distance than any other religious figures, although it may sound evangelical. ;) I would appreciate further comments on this.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly wrote:

To keep the language of your translation non-sexist, might I suggest the following change: 'puggala' as person, instead of man; 'manussaa' as humans instead of men?

Thus:
"One person, monks, being born in the world, is born to the benefit of a great many, to the happiness of a great many, out of mercy for the world, to the advantage, to the benefit, to the happiness of gods and humans."
... and son on, throughout.



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