Dear Florent,

In reply to your question about whether it is worth finishing the book
you are doing (Buddhadatta: The New Pali Course), I'm not well
qualified to answer since I don't have the book and am only seeing the
exercises for the first time from your posts. However, from what I'm
seeing, the level of the exercises seems very comparable to Lily de
Silva's Pali Primer, which I did work through in detail, and in fact
the vocabulary used seems strikingly similar. As I've posted here
before, what I liked about de Silva's book was it's easy entry to the
language and it's fairly gentle pace (at least in the beginning).
What I didn't like was that the later chapters seem compressed and
superficial in their coverage and the examples and vocabulary are not
directly from the Canon.

I did however find it beneficial to complete the book and then move to
something more challenging. I highly recommend Gair and
Karunatillake's "A New Course in Reading Pali". All the exercises are
straight from the early Canon (except for a few later works in the
last couple of chapters), and the treatment of the grammatical
paradigms is very thorough, without being overwhelming as Warder can be.

Hope this helps.
With metta,
John

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...> wrote:
> Dear John,
> Thank you for the reply. Actually the more I advance in this book (I
> have reached exercise 18) the more problems I encounter with
> translating from Pali to English. I would have thought that the
> opposite would happen. I sometimes understand the general meaning of
> the sentence but then I am never too sure if what I write in English
> is acceptable from a stylistical and grammatical point of view.
>
> The other problem is that I have sometimes the impression that the
> sentences I translate are a bit "old-fashioned" and not really
> connected with any "reality". I must admit that I enjoy translating
> these sentences (a bit like solving a mathematical problem) but
> besides the intellectual satisfaction of having achieved something,
> does it really bring me a lot? I want to believe that once I will have
> finished the 28 exercises (and I will, I don't like to leave things
> half finished) it will really help me to study texts of the canon,
> such as the ones you translate.
>
> In his preface Warder writes "In Ceylon and other countries where Pali
> is taught at school the method is to begin with the later language
> [...] and the amcient canonical language is taught only to advanced
> pupils. To the beginner [...] however, the ancient Pali is somewhat
> easier than the medieval. It is also far more interesting."
>
> I suppose this applies to the book I am studying! Is it really worth
> from a practical point of view, besides the intellectual point of
> view, to put all this effort and time to finish this book? I am
> starting to doubt about it and I would like to hear your comments.
>
> With metta,
>
> Florent
>
>
>
> > Dear Florent,
> > I don't think there has to be some standard way - it's entirely up to
> > you (the translator) what choice to make, or whether even to show
> > alternative possibilities. If this was not an isolated sentence,
> > shown out of context, it would probably be much clearer as to the best
> > translation. E.g. if one knew that the slaves in question were
> > rebellious then they might take horses to the enemies, but it seems
> > more likely to me that someone's slaves would be taking away the
> > enemies' horses.
> >
> > With metta,
> > John
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...> wrote:
> > > Dear John,
> > >
> > > Thank you for the comment. Actually is there a way I should write
> > > alternative solutions when they are logically possible? Like for
> > example:
> > >
> > > 7. Tumha.m daasaa ariina.m asse hari.msu.
> > > your / slaves / [to] or [of] enemies / horses / took away
> > > Your slaves took away the horses to (of) the enemies.
> > >
> > > Or should I just keep the one that seems to make more sense?
> > >
> > > With metta,
> > >
> > > Florent
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "John Kelly" <palistudent@...> wrote:
> > > > Dear Florent,
> > > >
> > > > > 7. Tumha.m daasaa ariina.m asse hari.msu.
> > > > > your / slaves / [to] enemies / horses / took away
> > > > > Your slaves took away the horses to the enemies.
> > > >
> > > > An alternative reading would be that ariina.m is genitive
> plural, and
> > > > thus:
> > > > Your slaves took away the enemies' horses.
> > > >
> > > > With metta, John
> > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...>
> wrote:
> > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > You will find below the answers to the first part of exercise
> 7 page
> > > > > 19 of "The New Pali Course" of Buddhadatta. This exercise mainly
> > > > > illustrates the use of the personal pronouns "amha" and "tumha".
> > > > > With metta,
> > > > >
> > > > > Florent
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Aha.m mayha.m puttassa assa.m adadi.m.
> > > > > I / my / [to] son / horse / gave
> > > > > I gave the horse to my son.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Tva.m amhaaka.m gaamaa aagacchasi.
> > > > > you / our / village / come
> > > > > You come (from) our village.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Maya.m tava hatthe passaama.
> > > > > we / your / hands / see
> > > > > We see your hands.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. Mama puttaa giri.m aaruhi.msu.
> > > > > my / sons / mountain / climbed
> > > > > My sons climbed the mountain.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. Tumhaaka.m sunakhaa magge sayi.msu.
> > > > > your / dogs / [on] path / slept
> > > > > Your dogs slept on the path.
> > > > >
> > > > > 6. Amha.m mittaa cora.m asinaa pahari.msu.
> > > > > my / friends / thief / [with] sword / struck
> > > > > My friends struck the thief with the sword.
> > > > >
> > > > > 7. Tumha.m daasaa ariina.m asse hari.msu.
> > > > > your / slaves / [to] enemies / horses / took away
> > > > > Your slaves took away the horses to the enemies.
> > > > >
> > > > > 8. Coro mama puttassa ma.nayo coresi.
> > > > > thief / my / [of] son / gems / stole
> > > > > The thief stole my son's gems.
> > > > >
> > > > > 9. Isayo mayha.m gehe na vasi.msu.
> > > > > sages / our/ [in] house / not / dwellt
> > > > > The sages did not dwell in our house.
> > > > >
> > > > > 10. Kavi tava puttaana.m dhamma.m desesi.
> > > > > poet / your / [to] sons / doctrine / preached
> > > > > The poet preached the dhamma to your sons.