Hello John, Nina and all friends
We had this discussion with John, maybe it's worthwhile,
I forgot to mention at the time so it is an opportuinity
to thank Venerable Gampaha PemaSiri of Kanduboda,
(one of the leading teachers, I belive, in this generation )
for the attention he drew to the supreme immportance of the term
Samma - as (I hope I do not misrepresent his insight) a quality of
the Buddha himself.

>sammaasambuddhassa [avyayibhava compound] rightly
>self-awakened one

as sammaa => same as, the realization of following the perfect,
the embodiment ( I guess in different 'degrees', individual
ability).

as in the case of the eight fold path factors-
only the supramundane path merits as 'a factor of the path'-
a 'Sama'...
(M.N.117)

Sambuddho - one of perfect(ion of) understanding - a Buddha.

SammaSambuddho - the ascetic Gotama has relizes, conformed,
follow to it's columination , the path of the Buddha's.

Metta
Jothiko Bhikkhu

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> thanks to Ven. Yuttadhammo and you. I know he likes to keep the
translation
> as literal as possible. But I could still add a suggestion, no
need to
> change anything.
>
> The compound: sammaasambuddhassa [avyayibhava compound] rightly
> self-awakened one
>
> I went to the collection of compounds and cannot make this out:
> <Avyaiibhaava compounds are used as adverbs and as such are
> indeclinable. They must refer to a verb in some way. In this
type of
> compound, it is the first word rather than the following word that
> predominates and this first word as well as the compounded whole,
is
> also an indeclinable. The indeclinable form taken is usually
based on
> the neuter nominative/accusative singular ending.>
>
> As adverb? Is sambuddha not predominant?
>
> op 24-09-2005 15:17 schreef Alan McClure op alanmcclure3@...:
> > Verily, before self-awakening, being still a Bodhisatta, not yet
> > self-awakened, there came this:
> -----
> N: This occured, or this thought occurred.
> -----------
>
> A: Through the existence of birth, old-age and death exist; from
the cause
> > of birth exist old-age and death.
> --------
> Text: sati [f-i/nom/sg] being/existing,
> N: but the construction is locative absolute.
> Sati is the locative of sant, being. It is a locative absolute
(like in
> Latin: ablative absolute). See Warder, Lesson 16, p. 103, 104. He
gives:
> upaadaane kho sati bhavo hoti: when there is attachment, there is
existence.
> Text:
> kimhi nu kho sati jaraamara.na.m hoti, here we can translate: if
there is
> the presence of what, is there old age and death?
> As Ven. Bhikkhu says: kimhi [inter pro/loc/n/sg] what, kimhi is
locative.
>
> Text: In the case of of becoming, birth exists;
> ------
> N: When there is becoming, there is birth.
> -------
>
> Text:
> asati [f-i/nom/sg] not being/not existing
> -------
> N: locative absolute: when there is the absence of what?
> literally: when what is absent...
> -------
> Nina.