--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhikkhu Pesala" <pesala@...> wrote:
> Yes.
>
> "Katamo ca, bhikkhave, puggalo paññävimutto? Idha, bhikkhave,
ekacco
> puggalo ye te santaa vimokkhaa atikkamma rüpe äruppä te na käyena
> phusitvä viharati, paññäya cassa disvä äsavä parikkhïnä honti.
Ayam
> vuccati, bhikkhave, puggalo paññävimutto." (M.i.477 ¶ 182 CSCD
> Tipitaka)
>
> "What kind of person is one liberated-by-wisdom? Here some person
does
> not contact with the body and abide in those liberations that are
> peaceful and immaterial, transcending forms, but his taints are
> destroyed by his seeing with wisdom. This kind of person is called
one
> liberated-by-wisdom."
>
> This passage clearly states that one who does not abide in those
> liberations that are peaceful and immaterial, transcending forms
> (jhaanas) can gain liberation by seeing with wisdom. It is hard to
see
> why the controversy continues unabated when this passage is so
> categorical.
>
> Venerable Mahaasi Sayaadaw spent most of his life teaching the
> suddhavipassanaa method for the benefit of lay people who have
> insufficient time to cultivate jhaana. Since the late Sayaadaw was
the
> Chief Questioner at the Chattha Sangaayana, and left a legacy of
over
> 300 branch meditation centres, I think we can be reasonably sure
that
> his method is an effective way to gain insight and realise
nibbaana.
>
> See also the Aanaapaana Diipanii by the late Venerable Ledi
Sayaadaw
> where he states the different options for proceeding from
concentration
> to insight.
>
>
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Library/Ledi/Anapanasati/anapanasati.htm
l
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Chris André Stranden <bobtarzan@...>
wrote:
> > Hello folks! :-)
> >
> > Are there any statements in the Palicanon that clearly states
that it is
> > possible to reach Nibbana without having such a strong samadhi
that you
> can
> > enter the jhana-states?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Chris André Stranden


> Hi
few possible ways to relate to the `Vippassana first, and then
Samatha' question.
`AggiSutta' of the `bojjhangaSamyuta'
Where, apart from `Sati', which, as I understand, should be there
always, the other `limbs of enlightenment'
Are classified into two groups:
1 inquiry into states `dhamma vicaya', effort `viriyaa',
tranquillity `piti'- to be practiced by `one of a sluggish mind'
2 happiness `Sukha', concentration `samadhi',
equanimity `uppekha'- To be practiced by 'one of an agitated mind'

The criterias certainly provide for `vippassana before samatha'.

The second Sutta is also from the Samyuta collection,
'At the bhikkhuni quarters', where while practicing `undirected
meditation', encountering hindrances, the advice is to switch to
Observation of a `wholesome sign', as a `directed meditation' and to
develop it beyond `vittakavicara', the strong characteristics of
the `first jhana'.

The third example is the most interesting of all.
Regarding M. N. 140 where the practice is defined by the four:
Pannadhitthaana, saccaadhitthaana, caagaadhitthaana,
upasamaadhitthaana.

`If tranquillity `samatha' is developed… all lust is abandoned, if
insight `vipasana' is developed, all ignorance is abandoned.
A mind defiled by lust is not freed and wisdom defiled by ignorance
can not develop.
Thus, monks, through the fading away of lust there is liberation of
mind `ragaviraga cetovimutti' and through the fading away of
ignorance there is liberation by wisdom `avijjaviraga pannavimutti'.
(a.2.157)(Vism. XX.105)

These two 'vehicles' apply the only four ways, the possible
processes of meditation by which Arahats have attained, as expounded
by the great disciple Ven. Ananda (A.n.).

The first of course easily relates to `samasati pahoti samasamadhi',
The second is the answer I've tried to provide,
The third, as a `mix', may correlate with the way some `Zen' masters
see their way.
The fourth, a practice of the `vippasanmaupakilessa' may provide an
answer to the riddle of the way of practice of the `paccekabuddhaa'…
speculations abound,
But certainly:
"Any recluses or Brahman's who understand as they actually are the
origin, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger and the
escape in the case of these two views `dve anta'
Are without lust, without hate, without delusion, without craving,
without clinging, with vision, not given to favouring and opposing,
and they do not delight in and enjoy proliferation. They are freed
from birth, ageing and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief
and despair; they are freed from suffering, I say'. (Tr. Taken
from `access to insight').

A further complication of the seemingly elusive distinctions is `the
four kinds of concentrations' in the `group of fours' of
the `AnguttaraNikaya'.

Thanks

Bhikkhu Jothiko