Dear Ven. Pesala, Alan, Dmytro, Ole, John, Nina, Robert, Piya,
Stephen and friends,

thanks for the interesting discussion. I think this is a very popular
topic among Buddhists, and it has appeared at least once on this list.

The Chinese classified this precept as a "covering" precept, i.e. as
a preventive measure to the other four precepts.

The incident given below seems to be for the monks. I have heard of
another story where a person violates all the first four precepts
after getting drunk, leading to the Buddha establishing the fifth
precept.

I would tend to agree that the fifth precept is established later
than the other four. It is like the Buddha's first disciples only
took refuge in the Dual-Gem: Buddha and Dhamma (not Triple-Gem).

I do not dispute with the fifth precept, although I am a social
drinker. However, I like to point out an interesting phenomenon. We
all are aware that the most heinous crimes in history are committed
by sober men, not under the effect of alcohol or whatever. Yet,
Buddhists tend to highlight and emphasise the fifth precept as though
alcohol is the root of all evil. To me, it seems to be too "out of
the world", and it makes me wonder if that is why it takes so long
for Buddhists to be socially engaging, i.e. to really know the real
issues to tackle. Or, if that's an excuse for Buddhists not to face
real socal issues, especially if it means confrontation with others.
I think the Buddha's teachings is far beyond even the five precepts.


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Alan McClure wrote:

"When Gotama arrived in Kosambii in 520 BC, all such things still lay
in the future. The king's indifference to the Sangha, however, was
obvious and was reflected in the low morale of the local monks. How
embarrassing for the Buddha to find the bhikkhu Saagata lying before
the city gate of Kosambii, dead drunk!. On his alms-round, he had
drunk a cup of palm-wine at every door. It was not exactly a
triumphal procession in which monks carried their intoxicated
confrere back to the monastery, doubtless to the accompaniment of
witty comments from the citizenry. This event provided the occasion
for the Buddha to issue an order prohibiting alcohol for the monks
(SV 51.1). Later he decreed that novices who were found to be
drinkers should be refused full ordination (MV 1.60)."