Dear John,

> You've brought up a very interesting topic. The 5th precept,
> linguistically, is a wonderfully complex compound word that, due to
> the nature of Pali, is open to several different interpretations.

Fortunately we have the Atthakatha which mostly resolves the ambiguity.

Suraamerayamajjappamaada.t.thaanaanuyogoti ettha suraati
pi.t.thasuraa puuvasuraa odanasuraa ki.n.napakkhittaa
sambhaarasa.myuttaati pa~nca suraa. Merayanti pupphaasavo phalaasavo
madhvaasavo gu.laasavo sambhaarasa.myuttoti pa~nca aasavaa. Ta.m
sabbampi madakara.navasena majja.m. Pamaada.t.thaananti
pamaadakaara.na.m. Yaaya cetanaaya ta.m majja.m pivati, tassa
eta.m adhivacana.m.

Pathikavagga-Atthakatha 3.944

Suraamerayamajjapamaada.t.thaananti ettha pana suraati pa~nca suraa–
pi.t.thasuraa, puuvasuraa, odanasuraa, ki.n.napakkhittaa,
sambhaarasa.myuttaa caati. Merayampi pupphaasavo, phalaasavo,
gu.laasavo, madhvaasavo, sambhaarasa.myutto caati pa~ncavidha.m.
Majjanti tadubhayameva madaniya.t.thena majja.m, ya.m vaa
pana~n~nampi ki~nci atthi madaniya.m, yena piitena matto hoti
pamatto, ida.m vuccati majja.m. Pamaada.t.thaananti yaaya cetanaaya ta.m
pivati ajjhoharati, saa cetanaa madappamaadahetuto
pamaada.t.thaananti vuccati, yato ajjhohara.naadhippaayena
kaayadvaarappavattaa suraamerayamajjaana.m ajjhohara.nacetanaa
“suraamerayamajjapamaada.t.thaanan”ti veditabbaa.

Khuddakapatha-Atthakatha .26

Suraamerayamajjappamaada.t.thaanaanuyoganti ettha suraati
pi.t.thasuraa puuvasuraa odanasuraa ki.n.napakkhittaa
sambhaarasa.myuttaati pa~nca suraa. Merayanti pupphaasavo phalaasavo
madhvaasavo gu.laasavo sambhaarasa.myuttoti pa~nca aasavaa. Ta.m
sabbampi madakara.navasena majja.m. Pamaada.t.thaananti
pamaadakaara.na.m, yaaya cetanaaya ta.m majja.m pivati, tasseta.m
adhivacana.m.

Mahaniddesa-Atthakatha 2.353

I agree with the explanation written by esteemed Ole Holten Pind, one of
the authors of Critical Pali Dictionary

> Pamaada,t.thaana means cause of intoxication, and majja denotes any

alcoholic beverage. Suraa and meraya are two kinds of such beverage, as
Dmytro explaine. Put together the compound in the context means
abstention from the cause of intoxication, namely alcohol like suraa and
meraya.

Mettena cittena, Dmytro

> One can break up the whole compound into 5 elements as follows:
> suraa-meraya-majja-pamaada-.t.thaanaa
>
> The first 3 (suraa-meraya-majja) can be taken together as a dvanda
> compound - each word referring to a different type of
> alcohol (sometimes translated as 'wine, spirits, and liquor'). Taking
> 'majja' as a more generic word for any intoxicant, some make the
> compound encompass other drugs by using a translation like: 'wine,
> liquor, and intoxicants'.
>
> This dvanda compound is then linked to the next word 'pamaada'in a
> tappurisa compound: 'heedlessness (resulting from) wine, etc.'
>
> 'Pamaada' is itself linked to '.t.thaanaa' in a tappurisa compound,
> and '.t.thaanaa', having one meaning 'state' would appear here to be
> largely redundant, and simply means 'the state of (heedlessness)'.
>
> Or perhaps the whole compound is a kammadhaaraya and one can translate
> it as 'the state of heedlessness that is wine, spirits, and
> alcohol'.
>
> As you can see, ambiguities can arise depending on the particular
> translation one chooses. Is the 5th precept an undertaking to abstain
> from all intoxicants completely (as many Buddhist do), or is it rather
> an undertaking to abstain from being intoxicated, thus implying that a
> moderate amount of alcohol is OK (as yet others do)? I think one has
> to decide for oneself.
>
> It's interesting too that in many places in the suttas only the first
> 4 precepts are mentioned, which might imply that the 5th was a later
> addition. I don't know whether any sholarly analysis has been done on
> that issue.
>
> Clearly, to me, at least, the Buddha is simply telling us that
> anything that clouds our mind and leeds us away from mindfulness is to
> be avoided. I include mindless TV and other similar things in that
> category!
>
> With metta,
> john
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Alan McClure" <alanmcclure3@...> wrote:
>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>In the Jivaka sutta of the Anguttara Nikaya, we have the case of
>
> abstention
>
>>from alcohol discussed. The relevant section is:
>>
>>yato kho, jiivaka, upaasako paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti.
>
> adinnaadaanaa
>
>>pa.tivirato hoti, kaamesu micchaacaaraa pa.tivirato hoti, musaavaadaa
>>pa.tivirato hoti, suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa pa.tivirato hoti;
>>ettaavataa kho, jiivaka, upaasako siilavaa hotii''ti.
>>
>>Understanding that pa.tivirato means "abstaining from," I am trying to
>>understand what it is, in fact, that should be abstained from in the
>
> case of
>
>>alcohol.
>>
>>The particular word in question is:
>>suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa
>>
>>I am not sure what type of compound this is, so I am not able to
>
> decipher
>
>>its meaning, though I can see the components of "rum and spirits,
>>intoxicants," etc.
>>
>>So, is it indeed the case that this compound is refering to the
>
> abstention
>
>>from:
>>
>>"alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [that lead to] heedlessness"
>>
>>or abstention from:
>>
>>"alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [to the point of] heedlessness."
>>
>>I appreciate your knowledge, as the differences between the various
>>compounds are generally still beyond me.
>>
>>Metta,
>>
>>Alan