Dear Alan,
You've brought up a very interesting topic. The 5th precept,
linguistically, is a wonderfully complex compound word that, due to
the nature of Pali, is open to several different interpretations.

One can break up the whole compound into 5 elements as follows:
suraa-meraya-majja-pamaada-.t.thaanaa

The first 3 (suraa-meraya-majja) can be taken together as a dvanda
compound - each word referring to a different type of
alcohol (sometimes translated as 'wine, spirits, and liquor'). Taking
'majja' as a more generic word for any intoxicant, some make the
compound encompass other drugs by using a translation like: 'wine,
liquor, and intoxicants'.

This dvanda compound is then linked to the next word 'pamaada'in a
tappurisa compound: 'heedlessness (resulting from) wine, etc.'

'Pamaada' is itself linked to '.t.thaanaa' in a tappurisa compound,
and '.t.thaanaa', having one meaning 'state' would appear here to be
largely redundant, and simply means 'the state of (heedlessness)'.

Or perhaps the whole compound is a kammadhaaraya and one can translate
it as 'the state of heedlessness that is wine, spirits, and
alcohol'.

As you can see, ambiguities can arise depending on the particular
translation one chooses. Is the 5th precept an undertaking to abstain
from all intoxicants completely (as many Buddhist do), or is it rather
an undertaking to abstain from being intoxicated, thus implying that a
moderate amount of alcohol is OK (as yet others do)? I think one has
to decide for oneself.

It's interesting too that in many places in the suttas only the first
4 precepts are mentioned, which might imply that the 5th was a later
addition. I don't know whether any sholarly analysis has been done on
that issue.

Clearly, to me, at least, the Buddha is simply telling us that
anything that clouds our mind and leeds us away from mindfulness is to
be avoided. I include mindless TV and other similar things in that
category!

With metta,
john

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Alan McClure" <alanmcclure3@...> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> In the Jivaka sutta of the Anguttara Nikaya, we have the case of
abstention
> from alcohol discussed. The relevant section is:
>
> yato kho, jiivaka, upaasako paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti.
adinnaadaanaa
> pa.tivirato hoti, kaamesu micchaacaaraa pa.tivirato hoti, musaavaadaa
> pa.tivirato hoti, suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa pa.tivirato hoti;
> ettaavataa kho, jiivaka, upaasako siilavaa hotii''ti.
>
> Understanding that pa.tivirato means "abstaining from," I am trying to
> understand what it is, in fact, that should be abstained from in the
case of
> alcohol.
>
> The particular word in question is:
> suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa
>
> I am not sure what type of compound this is, so I am not able to
decipher
> its meaning, though I can see the components of "rum and spirits,
> intoxicants," etc.
>
> So, is it indeed the case that this compound is refering to the
abstention
> from:
>
> "alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [that lead to] heedlessness"
>
> or abstention from:
>
> "alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [to the point of] heedlessness."
>
> I appreciate your knowledge, as the differences between the various
> compounds are generally still beyond me.
>
> Metta,
>
> Alan