Dear Yong Peng,

From the notes I sent yoy (feel free to forward to anyone else), you will notice there are quite a number of usages of nimitta.

Since the passage you are translating, you can use nimitta as "sense-object" which is canonical usage. One has to look at the whole context.

Perhaps your suggestion is better here.

Sukhi

Piya

--- Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:

> Dear John, Nina, Piya and friends,
>
> thanks. I can see there is quite a fair bit to digest here.
>
> John wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> bhiyyobhaava = increase, multiplication (bhiyyo=more,
> bhaava=becoming)
> vepulla = full development, abundance
> These are both in dative case and related to sa.mvattati, thus
> something like "leads to increase and full development".
>
> karoto = the genitive/dative of the present participle (karonto) of
> "karoti" (do, make).
> manasi+karoti = literally "makes the mind", or more idiomatically
> "pays attention, attends".
> Thus "ayoniso manasi karoto" = "for one attending carelessly".
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 1. John, how about having "bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya" as "to growth
>
> and full development". And then, taking it a step further, as Nina
> suggests, having "bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya" as "to sprawl and full
>
> devastation"?
>
> 2. John, thanks for explaining 'karoto'. The 'karoti' family is very
>
> special indeed.
>
> 3. Nina, thanks for explaining the phrase "vijambhitaa bhattasammado
>
> cetaso ca liinatta.m". I shall follow what you wrote.
>
> 4. Regarding the compound 'pa.tighanimitta', Piya has sent me an
> offlist message on nimitta. Unfortunately, it contains no suggestion
>
> for 'pa.tighanimitta'. I did actually take 'nimitta' as an object,
> from a Buddhist psychological viewpoint. I have 'subhanimitta'
> as "appealing sight". I think I have one questions here:
>
> Is 'nimitta' in both 'subhanimitta' and 'pa.tighanimitta' referring
>
> to sights (visual) or objects (visual, audio, etc.)?
>
> Nina, you have 'pa.tighanimitta' as "undesirable feature". I think
> you take 'feature' as a "visual feature". I think using
> 'undesirable'
> is too _light_. I don't think something undesirable causes illwill
> easily. I would suggest 'offensive'. What do you think?
>
>
> metta,
> Yong Peng.
>
>
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
>
> I pondered over: bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati, proceeds to
>
> development . This is said of sensual desire. I take the word
> development usually in a beneficial sense. Is there an alternative?
>
> Increases? Actually, it becomes worse and worse.
>
> > "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
> > anuppanno vaa byaapaado uppajjati uppanno vaa byaapaado
> > bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati yathayida.m, bhikkhave,
> > pa.tighanimitta.m.
> >
> > "Monks, I cannot identify even one other condition by which non-
> > arisen ill-will arises, or arisen ill-will proceeds to
> development
> > as just this, monks: a resentful sign.
>
> N: Resentful sign. The word resentful seems to suggest that the
> nimitta itself is resentful or angry.
> BPS has: repulsive feature.
> Footnote from commentary: anittha.m. What is undesirable.
> Do you like: an undesirable feature?
> I have trouble with the word nimitta, sign. It sounds strange. It
> can
> mean object.
>
> > "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
> > anuppanna.m vaa thinamiddha.m uppajjati uppanna.m vaa
> > thinamiddha.m bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati yathayida.m,
> > bhikkhave, arati tandii vijambhitaa bhattasammado cetaso ca
> > liinatta.m.
> >
> > "Monks, I cannot identify even one other condition by which
> > non-arisen sloth and torpor arises, or arisen sloth and torpor
> > proceeds to development as just this, monks: the discontent,
> > weariness, drowsiness, and sluggishness of the mind after a meal.
>
> N: vijambhitaa bhattasammado cetaso ca liinatta.m: when looking at
> the word ca, I think it separates vijambhitaa bhattasammado from
> cetaso liinatta.m.
> cetaso ca: and of the mind...
> Also the PTS separates them. It would be: drowsiness after a meal
> and
> sluggishness of the mind.
>
>
>
>
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