Dear John, Nina, Piya and friends,

thanks. I can see there is quite a fair bit to digest here.

John wrote:
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bhiyyobhaava = increase, multiplication (bhiyyo=more, bhaava=becoming)
vepulla = full development, abundance
These are both in dative case and related to sa.mvattati, thus
something like "leads to increase and full development".

karoto = the genitive/dative of the present participle (karonto) of
"karoti" (do, make).
manasi+karoti = literally "makes the mind", or more idiomatically
"pays attention, attends".
Thus "ayoniso manasi karoto" = "for one attending carelessly".
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1. John, how about having "bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya" as "to growth
and full development". And then, taking it a step further, as Nina
suggests, having "bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya" as "to sprawl and full
devastation"?

2. John, thanks for explaining 'karoto'. The 'karoti' family is very
special indeed.

3. Nina, thanks for explaining the phrase "vijambhitaa bhattasammado
cetaso ca liinatta.m". I shall follow what you wrote.

4. Regarding the compound 'pa.tighanimitta', Piya has sent me an
offlist message on nimitta. Unfortunately, it contains no suggestion
for 'pa.tighanimitta'. I did actually take 'nimitta' as an object,
from a Buddhist psychological viewpoint. I have 'subhanimitta'
as "appealing sight". I think I have one questions here:

Is 'nimitta' in both 'subhanimitta' and 'pa.tighanimitta' referring
to sights (visual) or objects (visual, audio, etc.)?

Nina, you have 'pa.tighanimitta' as "undesirable feature". I think
you take 'feature' as a "visual feature". I think using 'undesirable'
is too _light_. I don't think something undesirable causes illwill
easily. I would suggest 'offensive'. What do you think?


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

I pondered over: bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati, proceeds to
development . This is said of sensual desire. I take the word
development usually in a beneficial sense. Is there an alternative?
Increases? Actually, it becomes worse and worse.

> "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
> anuppanno vaa byaapaado uppajjati uppanno vaa byaapaado
> bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati yathayida.m, bhikkhave,
> pa.tighanimitta.m.
>
> "Monks, I cannot identify even one other condition by which non-
> arisen ill-will arises, or arisen ill-will proceeds to development
> as just this, monks: a resentful sign.

N: Resentful sign. The word resentful seems to suggest that the
nimitta itself is resentful or angry.
BPS has: repulsive feature.
Footnote from commentary: anittha.m. What is undesirable.
Do you like: an undesirable feature?
I have trouble with the word nimitta, sign. It sounds strange. It can
mean object.

> "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
> anuppanna.m vaa thinamiddha.m uppajjati uppanna.m vaa
> thinamiddha.m bhiyyobhaavaaya vepullaaya sa.mvattati yathayida.m,
> bhikkhave, arati tandii vijambhitaa bhattasammado cetaso ca
> liinatta.m.
>
> "Monks, I cannot identify even one other condition by which
> non-arisen sloth and torpor arises, or arisen sloth and torpor
> proceeds to development as just this, monks: the discontent,
> weariness, drowsiness, and sluggishness of the mind after a meal.

N: vijambhitaa bhattasammado cetaso ca liinatta.m: when looking at
the word ca, I think it separates vijambhitaa bhattasammado from
cetaso liinatta.m.
cetaso ca: and of the mind...
Also the PTS separates them. It would be: drowsiness after a meal and
sluggishness of the mind.