Dear Nina, John and friends,

thanks so much. Nina, thanks for ringing the bell on "pariyaadaaya
ti.t.thati". I remembered the MN passage and did take a look, but it
did not get in. I initially had "remains captivating", but it does
not flow, so I changed it to "enchanting" from a list of other words.
After posting the message, I thought of changing it to "is constantly
captivating" to reflect "ti.t.thati" as "is constantly".

You suggested "does persistently overwhelm", "overwhelm" is
definitely good. However, I think John hit the right note
with "persists in captivating". I had another look at MN62, and I
realised I was tricked by the different tenses. MN62 has ".thassanti"
but now we have "ti.t.thati".

I cannot remember if I figured this out the previous time,
but "pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati" means "overwhelms and persists".
Putting your two suggestions, I have:

"pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati" persists in overwhelming. The
word 'captivates' seems to mean just that but not exact, and I was
thinking in that direction for a better single word that can be
faithful to the two Pali "pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati".


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

Out of interest I would like to mention a paralel passage in the
mahaaraahulovaada sutta. It is paralel to citta.m pariyaadaaya
ti.t.thati. Jim gave me many cross references and I made a study of
it. See below. At that time we discussed the translation.

> "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekaruupampi samanupassaami ya.m eva.m
purisassa citta.m pariyaadaaya ti.t.thati yathayida.m, bhikkhave,
itthiruupa.m.
> "Monks. I cannot, monks, identify even one other form that so
enchants the mind of a man just as a woman's form.

From the mahaaraahulovaada sutta, but here it is in the negative:

``pathaviisama.m, raahula, bhaavana.m bhaavehi. pathaviisama~nhi te,
raahula, bhaavana.m bhaavayato uppannaa manaapaamanaapaa phassaa
citta.m na pariyaadaaya .thassanti.

Apply yourself to the mental development that is like the earth,
Rahula. For, Rahula, agreeable and disagreeable impressions that have
arisen when you apply yourself to the mental development that is like
the earth, will not persistently overwhelm the mind.

Your translation enchants is all right, but it could also be: does
persistently overwhelm the mind.

This is somewhat stronger.