--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <frank@4...> wrote:

> >
> ============================================================
> Fk: it's really not at all obvious to me that energy only includes
> materiality and excludes mentality. If the conditioned world is

only a

> constant flux of transformation, energy constantly changing form,

and the

> Buddhist model of the conditioned world is the constant flux and
> transformation of the 5 aggregates, then why would energy not

include all 5

> aggregates?
>
> Conditioned reality can not be neatly divided into mathematically
> independent entities. Consider these two excerpts from the nikayas:
>
> [m43] Maha Kotthita: Feeling, perception, & consciousness: are

these

> qualities conjoined or disjoined? And is it possible, having

divided them,

> to describe their separateness?
> Sariputta: Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, not
> disjoined, and it is impossible, having divided them, to describe

their

> separateness
>

_______________________-
Dear Frank,
this sutta was talking about nama (mentality) elements - not rupa
(materiality).

Yaa c'avuso vedanaa yaa saññaa yañ-ca viññaana.m ime dhammaa
sa.msa.t.thaa
udaahu visa.msa.t.thaa, labbhaa ca pan' imesa.m dhammaana.m
vinibhujitvaa
naanaakara.na.m paññaapetum-ti--
Yaa c'avuso vedanaa yaa saññaa yañ-ca viññaana.m ime dhammaa
sa.msa.t.thaa
no visa.msa.t.thaa, na ca labhaa imesa.m dhammaana.m vinibhujitvaa
naanaakara.na.m paññaapetum.
Ya.m h'aavuso vedeti ta.m sañjaanaati, yam sañjaanaati ta.m vedeti,
tasmaa
ime dhammaa sa.msa.t.thaa no visa.msa.t.thaa, na ca labhaa imesa.m
dhammaana.m vinibhujitvaa naanaakara.na.m paññaapetum-ti.

In fact the most important step in insight, vipassana, is to
distinguish nama from rupa. You might also consider why the suttas
talk about arupabrahmas - beings without any rupa (they only consist
of four khandhas).
I'll reply to the rest of your post later.
robert