Suan Lu Zaw, "abhidhammika" <suanluzaw@...> wrote:

>
> "Another related problem is bhikkhuni ordination: traditional
> Theravadins remain opposed to this, ... Only ignorance of the
> closeness of the monastic codes can sustain this belief ... "
>
> Your views here are rather simplistic. For example, why do you

think

> that those non-Theravadin monastics feel the need to call
> themselves "Mahayana"? Don't you think that it sounded very

arrogant?

>

In the history of Indian Buddhism the term, Mahayana, was used as a
reaction (or a movement) against the highly ecclesiastic, and
allegedly self-motivated Buddhism of the time. It was also used as a
means of reemphasizing Buddhism as a liberating vehicle for the
masses of Buddhist practitioners, and emphasizing compassion for all
beings. Thus, I do not think "it sounded very arrogant".

Similarly, the southern Buddhist tradition is historically only one
of the early Buddhist schools (so-called Hinayana Buddhism by the
Mahayana), but they called themselves "Theravada", Teaching of the
Elders. No other early Buddhist schools called the southern Buddhist
tradition "Theravada". One may consider it sounded very arrogant;
however, this is just very nature reaction against other early
schools who are not belonging to their tradition.

> And, don't you think that accusing Theravada ascetics of ignorance
> of the closeness of the monastic codes made you sound arrogant and
> conceited as well?

I really do not see Bhante Sujato has that intention. Why do you say
that?

>
> Let me tell you why Theravada ascetics and their followers regard
> the so-called Mahayana monastics and their other variants as fakes.
>
> I read during 2003 (or 2004?) in The Canberra Times that a Tibetan
> lama ordained women as Bhikkhuniis, and claimed to the effect that
> he had revolutionized something. ... Guess what? This Tibetan lama
> is an acquaintance of mine. He is married with children and goes
> about in lay clothes. He wears lama robes only when there are
> ceremonies such as during Dalai Lama's
> visit. ... As far as I am concerned, this Tibetan lama is merely a
> householder and >ceremonial robe-wearer. And, those so-called
> Bhikkhuniis ordained by this ceremonial robe-wearer are no more
> than fakes.>

There are different schools in Tibetan Buddhism. Some schools do not
follow the Vinaya rules. The Dalai Lama tradition belongs to the
Gelug school found by Tsongkhapa. This school follows strict Vinaya
rules, and they do not fully ordain women as Bhikkhunis. (I heard
that some Theravada monks in Sri Lanka are also accepted to have
wives (?).)

Thomas Law