Hi Robert,

>
> If I follow your reasoning Mahayana monks and Bhikkhus follow the

same

> vinaya and ordination procedures as the Theravada.

The Vinaya followed by the Chinese tradition (incl Korea, Vietnam,
etc.) is that of the Dharmaguptaka school, which is virtually
identical with the Theravada. That of the Tibetans is the
Mulasarvastivada, which is fundamentally similar, though diverges in
more details.

These are both early schools of Buddhism, which now no longer exist.
But once they had their own canons, Vinayas and practices just as
the Theravadins.

There is no such thing as a Mahayana ordination, except for
the 'Bodhisattva' precepts, which follow on from and supplement the
basic ordination.

Hence they are in

> fact really Theravada monks and Bhikkhuni?

No, their ordination lineages come from the schools as mentioned
above, and their doctrinal affiliation is with Mahayana. What they
wish to call themselves is up to them.

Just happen to wear

> different robes and a few things?

Yes, sort of.

I agree, probably more than most, that many of the practices and
customs that may be observed among present day Mahayana are deeply
problematic. I certainly don't endorse everything that goes on, nor
try to excuse it due to culutral relativity.

But i recognize that there are also deep problems in much of the
Theravada Sangha as well, despite the fact that, generally speaking,
they maintain a lifestyle more in keeping with the Vinaya.

I think that an important part of learning to live together and move
forward is the recognition of the fundamental similarity of the
Vinayas. This has also been said to me, happily enough, by several
monastics of Vietnamese, Tibetan, etc traditions. Hopefully by
emphasizing this fact we can focus our attention on those things
that are really important.

Here at Santi Forest Monastery we are about to do our first
pabbajja. Ajahn Brahm comes to lead the ceremony tomorrow. teaching
the inspiring words to our wonderful recruit Angus (Pali name yet
undecided!) reminds me what it's all about:

sabbadukkha-nissarana-nibbana-sacchikaranatthaya, etam kasavam
gahetva, pabbajjam detha me bhante!

in Dhamma

Bhante Sujato