Hi Dmytro,
An interesting question. Earlier European translators
favored 'wealth' for vibhava, though this has rightly fallen out of
favor.
The Sarvastivada scriptures do not have this threefold definition of
tanha as regularly as the Pali. I think they usually have kama-,
rupa-, arupa- in the second noble truth definition. However, the
Pali threesome of kama, bhava and vibhava can no doubt be found
elsewhere - if anyone's interested i can look up a few variations.
As for the interpretation, i think there is no doubt that the
commentarial tradition is right here. Bhava means basically 'plane
of rebirth'. It is countable (na te bhava.m a.t.thama.m aadiyanti,
Ratanasutta; notice the connection here between bhava and the verb
aadiyati, obviously related to the upaadaanapaccayaa bhavo link of
PS), so neither 'being' nor 'becoming' is really usable.
Only 'existence' really works, although we might also use 'life'
(as in, 'in my past life i was born as Cleopatra...').
I think this interpretation of bhava is the only one that is
relevant in central doctrinal contexts. So 'bhavatanha'
means 'craving for existence/life', with an implication that this
means 'eternal life' (in Indian philosophy there is a strong
tendency to equate being and eternity - if something really exists,
how can it not be?) It should not need mentioning that refuting such
ideas was one of the central planks in the Buddha's philosophy.
The commentarial glosses are probably influenced by the famous
discourse to Vacchagotta on not-self. (SN44.10/SA 961/SA2 190
Ananda)
The idea that bhava intrinsically means 'becoming' is irrational,
since bhavatanha obviously does not mean craving for an ever-
changing process of fluctuation.
I am quite familiar with the interpretation of vibhava as 'wanting
to get rid of'. In fact i know many of the monks and teachers
personally who teach such things. With due respect, i do not think
such interpretations have any basis at all in genuine sutta usages
(or useages anywhere else in Buddhism, whether Theravada
commentaries, or other schools - someone correct me if i'm wrong
here.)
They are part of an agenda to 'psychologize' the Dhamma, remove
rebirth from the Buddha's teachings. It is apparently convenient to
regard rebirth as a cultural accretion when teaching Dhamma in the
west.
I was recently speaking with a fellow here in Sydney, who said he
used to be a die-hard materialist. He only accepted rebirth when his
aunty died and the new born baby girl in the family started to
behave uncannily like the old aunty (insisting that the aunty's cup
was 'my cup', etc.). The Buddhist Society of WA now has a bumper
sticker: 'I didn't believe in rebirth last life, either!'
I find it a bit depressing when people who are responsible for
spreading the dhamma become so intimidated by 'scientism'.
Incidentally, this doesn't seem to be such a problem for the
scientists themselves - the intelligent ones usually have a better
understanding of the limits of scientific knowledge. It's those with
limited, more-or-less 19th century views on science who make an
issue of such things.
In any case, when we see rebirth as so central to the fundamental
teachings of the 4 noble truths and PS, how can we remove them
without castrating the Dhamma?
in Dhamma
Bhante Sujato
--- In
Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dmytro Oleksijovych Ivakhnenko
<nibbanka@...> wrote:
> Hello, Pali friends,
>
> I would like to clarify the meaning of the term 'vibhava-ta.nhaa'.
>
> Suttas desribe three sorts of craving:
>
> âKatama~nca, bhikkhave, dukkhasamudaya.m ariyasacca.m?
> Yaaya.m ta.nhaa ponobbhavikaa nandiiraagasahagataa
> tatratatraabhinandinii. Seyyathida.mâ" kaamata.nhaa
bhavata.nhaa
> vibhavata.nhaa.
>
> MN 1.62
>
> Vibhanga and commentaries give explanations:
>
> Tattha katamaa tisso ta.nhaa? Kaamata.nhaa, bhavata.nhaa,
> vibhavata.nhaa.
> Tattha katamaa bhavata.nhaa? Bhavadi.t.thisahagato raago
> saaraago cittassa saaraagoâ" aya.m vuccati âbhavata.nhaaâ.
> Tattha katamaa vibhavata.nhaa? Ucchedadi.t.thisahagato
> raago saaraago cittassa saaraagoâ" aya.m vuccati
âvibhavata.nhaaâ.
> Avasesaa ta.nhaa kaamata.nhaa.
> Tattha katamaa kaamata.nhaa? Kaamadhaatupa.tisa.myutto
> raago saaraago cittassa saaraagoâ" aya.m vuccati
âkaamata.nhaaâ.
> Ruupadhaatu-aruupadhaatupa.tisa.myutto raago saaraago
cittassa
> saaraagoâ" aya.m vuccati âbhavata.nhaaâ.
> Ucchedadi.t.thisahagato raago saaraago cittassa saaraagoâ" aya.m
vuccati
> âvibhavata.nhaaâ. Imaa tisso ta.nhaa.
>
>
Vibhanga .365
>
> Saa kaamaraagabhaavena ruupa.m assaadentii pavattamaanaa
kaamata.nhaa.
> Sassatadi.t.thisahagataraagabhaavena ruupa.m nicca.m dhuva.m
sassatanti
> eva.m assaadentii pavattamaanaa bhavata.nhaa.
> Ucchedadi.t.thisahagataraagabhaavena ruupa.m ucchijjati
vinassati
> pecca na bhavissatiiti eva.m assaadentii pavattamaanaa
> vibhavata.nhaati eva.m tividhaa hoti.
>
> Mulapannasa-Atthakatha 1.219
>
> Vibhave ta.nhaa vibhavata.nhaa,
ucchedadi.t.thisahagataraagasseta.m
> adhivacana.m.
>
> Mahavagga-Atthakatha 3.800
>
> Kaamata.nhaati pa~ncakaamagu.niko raago. ruupaaruupabhavesu pana
raago
> jhaananikantisassatadi.t.thisahagato raago bhavavasena
patthanaa
> bhavata.nhaa. ucchedadi.t.thisahagato raago vibhavata.nhaa.
apica
> .thapetvaa pacchima.m ta.nhaadvaya.m sesata.nhaa kaamata.nhaa
> naama. yathaaha âtattha katamaa bhavata.nhaa?
bhavadi.t.thisahagato
> raago saaraago cittassa saaraago. aya.m vuccati bhavata.nhaa.
tattha
> katamaa vibhavata.nhaa? ucchedadi.t.thisahagato raago saaraago
> cittassa saaraago, aya.m vuccati vibhavata.nhaa. avasesaa
ta.nhaa
> kaamata.nhaaâti.
>
> Pathikavagga-Atthakatha 3.988
>
> Thus vibhava-ta.nhaa is a craving associated with a belief in a
> cessation of becoming after the death of the body.
>
> Vibhava is defined as:
>
> Vibhavanti bhaavavigama.m.
>
> Silakkhandhavagga-Atthakatha 1.120
>
> Vibhavanti uccheda.m.
>
> Itivuttaka-Atthakatha 1.179
>
> Accordingly 'vibhava-ta.nhaa' can be translated as 'craving for
> cessation of becoming with the death of the body'.
>
> However there are alternative translations:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/go-a1.htm
> http://www.vimokkha.com/luangpoochob.htm
> http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble12.htm
> http://www.sukhi.com/sukhi%20practice5.htm
> http://www.fsnewsletter.net/36/36.htm
> http://www.no-fear.org/demons.htm
> http://www.chezpaul.org.uk/buddhism/articles/sacca2.htm
>
http://www.amaravati.org/abm/english/documents/the_way_it_is/21fms.ht
ml
> http://www.buddhistforbundet.no/bs/fireedlesannheter/part02.htm
>
> which imply the meaning "craving for things to cease to
be", "craving to
> get rid of", "craving for things not to happen".
>
> So the classification is interpreted as:
>
> * The desire to experience sensory pleasures (kama tanha)
> * The desire to become something other than what you are
right now
> (bhava tanha)
> * The desire to get rid of something about yourself (vibhava
tanha)
>
> http://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/noble4.htm
>
> which fits quite well in the framework of Buddha's teaching.
>
> I would like to ask the opinion of esteemed Pali scholars and
students
> on this subject.
>
> With metta, Dmytro
>
> http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/