Dear Stephen Hodge, Robert K and all

How are you?

Stephen wrote:

"If it is an off-list discussion, you should not post it to the list
without permission from the other party to include anything he
wrote. Moreover, what you have posted seems to be an edited version
of that off-list exchange -- your comments at length and those of
the other party seemingly truncated."

Your concerns are understandable. But, please read Jou's comment On
"Baahirakaa" and "Saavakabhaasitaa".

Jou Smith wrote in his reply to "Baahirakaa" and "Saavakabhaasitaa"
off-list:

"I notice in your debate you only reply to the academic side, and
not the experiential side. Interesting."

So, Stephen, what you see is what you get. I only replied to the
academic side. As my reply is relevant to students of Pali, I
posted the whole unedited version to this list. As I did not discuss
Jou's other personal opinions or experiential side at all, I do not
see the point of getting permission from him as my posting here is
purely objective and academic, and the reason I am having an off-
list discussion is to keep the discussion to the minimum due to my
other priorities and diversions. I could have easily invited him to
discuss the issues on BuddhistWellnessGroup.

Stephen also wrote:

"But, apart from that, the "baahirakaa saavaka-bhaasitaa" type of
expression is quite well attested in various less ambiguous contexts
outside of Pali sources and is indeed always understood as "spoken
by outsiders [and their] disciples" -- so you don't even need the
Pali commentaries to clarify that."

Glad to know that you understood all along, but some like Jou do not
seem to do unfortunately.

Moreover, this is Pali list where all levels of Pali students and
Pali scholars may read messages who would find discussion of the
Pali commentaries to be useful, and would not object to it at all,
unlike you who seem to have an issue with discussion of them? :-).

With regards,

Suan

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hodge" <s.hodge@...> wrote:
> abhidhammika wrote:


abhidhammika wrote:

> The following is an off-list discussion between me and Jou Smith.
As
> it is to do with Pali, I posted it here as well.

If it is an off-list discussion, you should not post it to the list
without permission from the other party to include anything he
wrote. Moreover, what you have posted seems to be an edited version
of that off-list exchange -- your comments at length and those of
the other party seemingly truncated.

But, apart from that, the "baahirakaa saavaka-bhaasitaa" type of
expression is quite well attested in various less ambiguous contexts
outside of Pali sources and is indeed always understood as "spoken
by outsiders [and their] disciples" -- so you don't even need the
Pali commentaries to clarify that.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge