Re: request: on the Digha

Hi Piya,

Well, all i can say is if you were 20 years ahead of your time, i'm
20 years behind!

I'm going through the History of mindfulness yet again, trying to
trim and focus it. Ven Analayo gave me some useful feedback. There
was a great piece of advice on writing by Steven King: 'Kill your
darlings'. O so difficult...

Isn't mula used often as a suffix, eg 'rukkhamula'? In 'Satipatthana
Mula' (i also use 'Vibhanga Mula' for the source on which the
Vibhanga, Dharmaskandha, and Sariputrabhidharma seem to be based)
there is a hint that mula is to be taken as a noun - the source text
for the Satipatthana Sutta. This is why i use it in the same way as
we use, say, 'sutta' as suffix.

The usage is derived, with tongue slightly in cheek, from the usage
in Bible studies, with the famous 'Q' gospel, where Q stands for the
German word for 'source' (i've forgotten what the word itself is).
Incidentally, Bishop Spong, my favorite modern Christian writer,
says that the 'Q' theory has now been demolished, with the result
that no earlier source for the Gospels exists than Mark (and
possibly Thomas). The Q theory was vibrant for 100 years or more,
and shows how an idea can ultimately be wrong, and yet still provoke
useful inquiry. Perhaps my ideas on the Satipatthana Sutta will
suffer the same fate, but hopefully will stimulate a little more
meaningful debate in the meantime.

The Satipatthana Sutta family tree is a fairly simple diagram that i
will probably include, but i don't know how to draw it on the
computer!

The reconstructing the angas is a difficult one. In part, it
consists of some of the analysis i used in the early version of the
GIST that was published in Singapore. But now that i'm going back to
the Chinese and re-examining the correspondence tables, some of the
details of that need to be changed. The general ideas remain the
same, in particular the finding that within many (perhaps all) of
the samyuttas, especially in SA, the discourses are arranged with
the simpler declarative ones earlier, then the more complex,
interrogative ones later, this seeming to correspond with the
distinction between sutta and vyakarana. There are even a few geyyas
in the middle. But i am not so confident now that i can show a
pattern of exact correspondence between the lists of discourses in
the various samyuttas. In some cases (but not all), the patterns i
noticed earlier have now disappeared. I'm still not sure how to
interpret this - it seems that the whole issue may require a much
broader study, taking in the whole Samyutta. So it might end up in
the next book...


in Dhamma

Bhante Sujato

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:
> Bhante,
>
> Thanks to your networking, I am now in touch with Ven Analayo. He
has generously sent
> me "back issues" of his Majjhima studies of those Suttas that I
have completed
> working on. Now that I have finished reading those I have
requested him to send me
> the rest. His work is very thorough and useful.
>
> Both your papers and Analayo's studies are of great value to me,
or should I say to
> those I teach. The Suttas are much clearly now.
>
> I am still reading your historic and revolutionary "History of
Mindfulness". Many of
> your ideas I can relate to as I have voiced them myself over 2
decades ago when the
> "Vipassana" following in Malaysia was very strong. Sadly it was a
voice in the
> wilderness then.
>
> I know it is not easy even for your voice to be heard and
positively responded to by
> the right people. But like all voices of truth and moderation, it
will be heard in
> due course when the truth will out.
>
> Some of my students say I was 20 years ahead but the gap is
closing now.
>
> I am spending much time now reflecting on your "History" and
revising/updating my own
> Sutta translations. This is such delightful Dharma detective work!
More exciting than
> "Name of the Rose" for sure.
>
> SATIPATTHANA MULA
>
> One thing puzzles about your usage of "Satipatthana Mula" (which I
must say, is the
> Dharma gift of this century), with the adjective suffixed.
Wouldn't it sound better
> if it read: "Mula Satipatthana" instead like "Maha Satipatthana,"
etc.
>
> SATIPATTHANA SUTTA FAMILY TREE
>
> By the way, Bhante, have the Appendices 1 "Reconstructing the
Angas" and 2 "The
> Satipatthana Sutta Family Tree" been completed yet? I still have
only the draft copy
> of "History".
>
> Namakkara.m
>
> Piya
>  
>  
>
> Bhante Sujato wrote:
>
> > Hi Piya,
> >
> > It's available from PTS. The first two (large!) volumes are
> > available, with the critical notes, text, etc. The translations
are
> > due to appear in the third, final, volume, hopefully this year.
> > Skilling has worked on this for twenty years, and he remarks
that he
> > has watched it grow over the years like his waistline! Thanks to
> > Stephen Hodge for originally putting me on to this. The
> > reconstructed Skt titles of the Tibetan texts are:
> >
> > Mayajala
> > Bimbisarapratyudgamana
> > Sunyata (=MN 121)
> > Mahasunyata (=MN 122)
> > Dhvajagra 1
> > Dhvajagra 2 (= SN1, XI.1.3)
> > Pancatraya (=MN 102)
> > Mahasamaja (=DN 20)
> > Atanatiya (=DN 32)
> > Aryavaisalipravesa
> >
> > Each of these has various other parallels in the Pali, Skt,
etc., as
> > well as the main ones listed. The group constitutes perhaps the
> > major collection of early Agama-sutras available in Tibetan. As
you
> > can see, it contains a rather curious mix of doctrinally heavy
and
> > light-weight material. Evidentally the texts were used as
parittas.
> >
> > in Dhamma
> >
> > Bhante Sujato
> >
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:
> > > Bhante,
> > >
> > > It would be lovely to have Peter Skilling's work on "Maha
Sutras"
> > as I have been
> > > looking for this work without success so far.
> > >
> >
> >
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