hi,

i heard from someone (i think it was ajahn brahm) that you cant
separate sukha and piti. it is only when one has disappeared during one
of the higher jhanas that you can recognized which is which.

i think i know what i am saying, though i am not sure if i am making any
sense.

Take Care.
june

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank Kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if someone can give me a definitive authoritative ruling on
this.
>
> Different buddhists seem to translate piti and sukkha differently. I had
always thought piti was mental pleasure, and sukkha was a physical
based pleasure. For example, my buddhist dictionary and
visuddhimagga give these 2 examples to differentiate between piti and
sukkha:
>
>
> How 5 jhana factors (jhananga) drop out with successively higher
jhanas
>
> (not to be confused with "5 factored concentration to be developed")
>
> 4 jhanas
>
> 1
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> Directed thought (vitakka): laying hold of initial thought. Fixing
consciousness on object
>
> X
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sustained thought (vicara): discursive thinking, mind roaming
>
> X
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rapture (piti): mental pleasure, like man dying of thirst who sees a
spring from a distance
>
> X
>
> X
>
>
>
>
>
> Joy (sukkha): physical pleasure, like man dying of thirst tasting the
water from spring
>
> X
>
> X
>
> X
>
>
>
> Equanimity (ekagatta): one pointedness of mind, stillness
>
> X
>
> X
>
> X
>
> X
>
>
> So according to those 2 sources, sukkha is the more refined kind of
pleasure, with a physical basis rather than just a purely mentally
conjured joy. Yet different buddhist english translations I read seem to
sometimes define piti and sukkha opposite from my understanding.
>
> In terms of pali, what were the common usages for piti and sukkha,
and how exactly did the Buddha mean those terms to mean in a
buddhist context?
>
> -fk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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