Dear Ven. Kumara, Gunnar and friends,

Bhante, thanks for that. I think Gunnar makes a valid point too. So,
I will keep both sentences.

metta,
Yong Peng

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar Gällmo wrote:
> --- Kumaara Bhikkhu skrev: >
> > >6. Amha.m kammaani karontaa daasaa (servants) pi
> > sappurisaa bhavanti.
> > > for us / work / doing / servants / too /
> > virtuous men / become
> > > The servants doing work for us become virtuous
> > men too.
> >
> > Sounds a bit odd in English if we must translate
> > "bhavanti" as "become". How about just
> > The servants doing work for us are virtuous
> > men too.
>
> The problem is that in English, "be" and "become"
> don't mean the same thing - being is static, becoming
> is dynamic; but that the Pali stem "bhuu" does not
> always seem to be quite clear about that distinction.
> (In the Pa.ticcasamuppaada, "bhava" must evidently be
> "becoming", not "being" - and not "birth", as "jaati"
> is the next step.)
>
> So what is the meaning in this sentence - are the
> servants virtuous already, or do they become so (by
> associating with us)?