> -----Original Message-----
> From: macdocaz1@... [mailto:macdocaz1@...]
> Sent: Friday, 06 February, 2004 9:15 AM
> To: insightpractice@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [InsightPractice] Re: the Buddha was an ecstatic
> contemplative
>
>
> Hello Jinavamsa and David, and thank-you for your thoughtful
> contributions to this subject.
Hi Jeff and all
Cut...
> Jhana is described as below:
I understand that you are someone who is concerned about being accurate
regarding the Buddha's teaching. As such I am surprised to seem you seem
to be using the commentarial [distorted] analysis of the sutta
description of the first four jhaana [from Visuddhimagga I believe].
If we just focus on what the Paali says we can avoid [as a first step]
the long and seemingly fruitless discussion about what the terms mean.
> The first jhana contains 5 jhana factors:
> preeti (bodily pleasure),
> Sukha (mental pleasure),
> Vitakka (applied/initiating concentration),
> Vicára (sustained concentration),
> Ekaggatha (one-pointedness).
If you intend to follow the majority of suttas attributed to the Buddha,
then the first jhaana does not have ekagattaa and the others are as
below. See full extract of text below.
> Second jhana:
> only preeti, sukha and Ekaggatha
Also samaadhi though that could be thought of as ekodibhaava [=
ekagataa]
Also in some texts paamujja [joy] and passadhi [tranquillity].
> Third jhana:
> Sukha and Ekaggatha
No ekagattaa [supposedly replaced by sati sampajannyya]
Buddha: piiti, viraaga, kaaya-sukha, uppekkhaa, sati, sampajannyya.
> Fourth jhana:
> Ekaggatha and equanimity (Upekkha)
Buddha: upekkha, sati and parisuddhi only
> Also please take note of the 6th factor of enlightenment:
> 6) Rapture piti
>
> Therefore I continue to rest on my claim that jhana =
> ecstasy, and that the
> historic Buddha was an ecstatic mystic (contemplative), even
> if the majority of
> the proponents in the 4 vehicles of Buddhism challenge that claim.
I agree with you on both accounts, just that our respective
understandings of what the jhaanas are [the translation of the word and
their experience], are different. :-)
> May you become enlightened in this very lifetime,
And you
Paail Extract:
The Four Ruupa Jhaana - M i 21-22
Preparation:
Aaraddham. kho pana me, braahma.na, viiriyam. ahosi asalliinam.,
upa.t.thitaa sati asammu.t.thaa passaddho kaayo asaaraddho, samaahitam.
cittam. ekaggam.. So kho aham., braahma.na, vivicceva kaamehi vivicca
akusalehi dhammehi
jh1.
savitakkam. savicaaram. vivekajam. piitisukham. pa.thamam. jhaanam.
upasampajja vihaasim.. [only 4 factors]
jh2.
Vitakkavicaaraanam. vuupasamaa ajjhattam. sampasaadanam. cetaso
ekodibhaavam. avitakkam. avicaaram. samaadhijam. piitisukham. dutiyam.
jhaanam. upasampajja vihaasim.. [only 3? factors]
jh3.
Piitiyaa ca viraagaa upekkhako ca vihaasim., sato ca sampajaano sukhañca
kaayena pa.tisam.vedesim.; yam. tam. ariyaa aacikkhanti upekkhako
satimaa sukhavihaariiti tatiyam. jhaanam. upasampajja vihaasim.. [6
factors]
jh4.
Sukhassa ca pahaanaa dukkhassa ca pahaanaa pubbeva
somanassadomanassaanam. atthan.gamaa adukkhamasukham.
upekkhaasatipaarisuddhim. catuttham. jhaanam. upasampajja vihaasim..
[only 3 factors]
So it seems there is a calming down of unwholesome activities in the
prelude to the first jhaana, and a calming down of wholesome activities:
4 to 3 factors in transition from jh1 to jh2, then new activity 3 to 6
factors [calm + insight indicated by sati-sampajaana] in transition from
jh2 to jh3, then a new calming down: 6 to 3 factors in transition from
jh3 to jh4, or if we follow the other texts the number of factors go 4,
5, 6, 3 to the respective successive jhaana.
----------------------------------------------------
Wishing peace and good health to you and those close to you from Norman
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