> -----Original Message-----
> From: nina van gorkom [mailto:nilo@...]
> Sent: Friday, 23 January, 2004 3:19 PM
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Buddhaghosa
>
>
> Dear Rett,

Hi All

Hope you are well and happy.

> I understand what you mean. Practice is for me always the
> test. I cannot see the study of the Dhamma as scholarly. In
> fact, Buddhaghosa is most helpful to understand the khandhas,
> dhaatus, ayaatanas now, in my life. The Pali is for me
> indispensable to better understand the texts. I could not
> miss Pali. I also have a scholarly interest and this aspect
> can help me with my main
> purpose: to understand and practice the Dhamma. But I
> understand it if others have a more litterary interest in
> Pali. We are all different people, different accumulations
> and backgrounds. When people think that Buddhaghosa is wrong,
> could you, please, give concrete examples. Have you heard of
> such? Or maybe just one concrete example? Thank you, Nina.

From my comparative study of the suttas:

A. there would have to be a path to the fruit of stream entry [the path
of stream entry] which Buddhaghosa and a lot of scholars seem to have
missed, or the path they offer is not realistic

There would seem to be a common path and a noble path. The common path
would be dependent on others and the noble path would start after one
has tested that teaching one got from others and has found it works in
one's own experience.

The Common Path [the path to Common Right View]:
1. associating with the wise [those with Noble Right View] kalyaanamitta
- this is said to be the most important external factor for
enlightenment 2. listening to them 3. asking oneself whether what they
say would harm oneself and or others or not [getting no as the answer,
one would have common right view and common faith and common morality
still can be undone, or reversed], this would be wise reflection [yoniso
manasikaara] and is said to be the most important internal factor for
enlightenment

And a path to Noble Right View
4. one intentionally applies the whole path [now knowing what it is
theoretically]: morality, concentration and widsom practices to one's
stressful/suffering experience and sees it works to end stressful
experience. Thus in the Kalaama sutta one's experience is the ultimate
authority, not texts, or teachers etc, though they are useful to come to
Common Right View. 5. one has developed unshakable [noble] morality in
thought -incuding faith- word and deed, but still has to practice
avoiding the bad habits -the distiction of morality and bad habits is in
the Vinaya-, this is the further training in action; one has experienced
the four ruupa-jhaana, but has to perfect them [the aruupa-jhaana are
optional]; and one has developed a smiggen of widsom, but has to prefect
it; one has freed oneself from the first three fetters, but in
developing the other practices frees oneself from the other 7.

The Noble Path
6. one continues applying the same practices to each stressful
experience and is freed from more until every experience is free from
stress and one has realised full extinguishment of greed, hatred and
deulsion [the threee roots of unwholesome action of thought, word and
deed].

I see [Noble] Right View as the first FRUIT of the path as the opposite
of sakkaayadi.t.thi [one form of Wrong View] the first fetter to be
eradticated. [Noble] Right View would be called wisdom 'cause it is
based on seeing for oneself and this would be where it and [Common]
Right View seem to have gotten mixed up.

It's obvious to me that Right View and Right Thought do come first and
they are part of a gradual training starting with the metal actions as
part of morality: thought, word and deed. I have found that it is on
that mental training that one has unshakable faith and cannot commit
those actions of word and deed that form a part of the traditional
definition of morality. The Buddha says that mental action is the most
reprehensible for dukkha and that once one attains Right View that the
amound of dukkha overcome is like the water left in the sea after
dipping one's finger in.

B. Right Effort and Right Mindfulness is in place from the beginning of
the path. The Buddha often says Morality [sila] leads to Concentration
[samaadhi], with no specific mention of Right Effort and Right
Mindfulness, why because I think he is defining them. Mindfulness as it
is taught now is restricted to the first Right Effort: bare attention =
guarding the sense doors [preventing the arising of unarisen unwholesome
states]. To be sucessful one must have the other three Right Efforts
too: eradicating arisen unwholesome states e.g. the hindrances,
promoting the arising of unarisen wholesome states e.g. the four
ruupa-jhaana and widsom practices maintaining the already arisen
wholesome states.

A pictorial presentation is attached.

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