Dear Michael,
op 03-11-2003 20:08 schreef Michael Beisert op
mbeisert@...:
> The point was not whether there is stronger vipaka for an ignorant person.
>
> Sorry then, it seems I misunderstood your question
What was the question
> again? I am lost now.
>N: The quote from the Milinda questions did not deal with vipaka. It dealt with
akusala citta. When ignorance is strong you burn yourself more:< ,"Indeed,
great king, in the same way the greater demerit is for him who does evil not
knowing.> Ignorance arises with each akusala citta, but it can be of
different degrees. When you have no notion of what is akusala the evil you
commit is of a higher degree.
M: I am not sure about akusala is stronger when there is more ignorance
> either ignorance is present as a mental factor or it is not present. I dont
> see this relative strength of ignorance in the texts. Where do you find
> this?
N: There are different degrees of akusala which is always accompanied by
ignorance: ignorance of what is kusala, what is akusala, ignorance of the
danger of akusala and of the benefit of kusala. Ignorance is gradually worn
away by those who develop understanding and attain stages of enlightenment,
a long process, taking aeons. Only the arahat has completely eradicated
ignorance.
In your own life you can notice that dosa sometimes is a slight uneasiness,
and sometimes a stronger aversion such as anger. Ignorance is very coarse
when one does not see that akusala is harmful, for instance if one at all
costs is after one's own pleasure and sees this as one's goal. A person
might even kill other beings, lie and steal all for his own sake. Ignorance
conditions wrong view which may be very dangerous, such as the views of
Makkhali Gosaala, Puura.na Kassapa and Ajita Kesakambali. If one propagates
that akusala kamma does not bring any result it is most harmful for society.
See the Brahmajaalasutta for different kinds of wrong view conditioned by
coarse ignorance.
We do not advocate such theories, but there are other forms of ignorance,
less coarse, but I would not call them subtle. In the Kindred Sayings IV,
Second Fifty, Ch I, §53 we read that a monk said:
<'By how knowing, lord, by how seeing does ignorance vanish and knowledge
arise?'
'In him that knows and sees the eye as impermanent... that knows and sees
objects... as impermanent, ignorance vanishes and knowledge arises.'
The same is said with regard to the other doorways.
Ignorance is not seeing the presently arisen dhamma as impermanent, dukkha
and anattaa.
The sotaapanna has realized the four noble Truths, but there are many
degrees of realizing this. He still has akusala, but no longer to the degree
of conditioning akusala kamma that can produce an unhappy rebirth. Gradually
the three roots are worn away until one reaches arahatship.
M: I understand your considerations about how vipaka can be produced. But I
> thought we should take a sort of scientific approach and simplify the
> variables otherwise it is impossible to get any answer.
N: Science has another approach and another goal, it is quite different from
the Buddha's teachings which have as the aim to develop understanding so
that defilements are gradually eradicated. Kamma and vipaka belong to the
"unthinkables", people would become mad when they try to find out which
kamma produces which vipaka. We cannot simplify what is the domain of the
Buddhas.
For us it is more fruitful to begin to understand whether the citta at this
moment is kusala or akusala. There is enough ignorance that has to be worn
away.
Nina.