Re: Pali - Every few days

Hello Eric,

You wrote:
"Someone who is more mindful, even if they commit an unwholesome act, is
likely to put somewhat less energy into that act. There may be the slightest
hesitation before committing that act. Therefore, the act will be slightly
less powerful, and slightly less unwholesome."

I would argue that it depends a lot on the level o guilt and remorse felt
about what has been done. Someone who does not know the Dhamma will find a
way or rationalizing any action and is unilkely to feel as much
guilt/remorse. While a Dhamma practitioner who knows that the deed was wrong
the feeling of guilt/remorse can leave a strong imprint in the mind. But if
there is no feeling of guilt/remorse, lets say there is confession and a
commitment not to perform that kind of deed anymore, then the imprint on the
mind of the dhamma practiotioner could be weakened.

Metta
Michael

>From: "Eric Van Horn" <ekvh@...>
>Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [Pali] Pali - Every few days - [B094]
>Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:01:15 -0500
>
>Hello Michael, Nina, et al,
>
>I remember being taught about this issue by Sharon Salzberg and Joseph
>Goldstein at the Insight Meditation Society. It is a teaching from the
>Burmese tradition. I apologize in advance if I am not able to properly
>articulate it.
>
>We are all subject to the unrelenting laws of cause and affect. Unwholesome
>actions have unwholesome results, and wholesome actions have wholesome
>results. The more unwholesome the act is, the more unwholesome the affect
>is, and vice versa
>
>Someone who is more mindful, even if they commit an unwholesome act, is
>likely to put somewhat less energy into that act. There may be the
>slightest
>hesitation before committing that act. Therefore, the act will be slightly
>less powerful, and slightly less unwholesome.
>
>Anything that strengthens mindfulness will help to protect us. Hopefully
>exposure to the Dhamma is one of them! Ignorance is not a protection
>against
>the results of unwholesome acts. Indeed, ignorance leaves us defenseless,
>like an ancient city with no walls. This is why ignorance is one of the
>three the poisons. Ignorance is one of the reasons that we continue to be
>subject to the relentless cycle of samsara.
>
>The good news for those of us who have been exposed - even briefly - to the
>Dhamma, is that this exposure helps protect us against future misfortune.
>It
>is especially good news for our future lives, but it is also pretty good
>news for this one. :)
>
>Metta,
>
>Eric Van Horn
>Colchester, Vermont
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Beisert [mailto:mbeisert@...]
>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:46 AM
>To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Pali] Pali - Every few days - [B094]
>
>Nina,
>
>On the surface this seems like a very easy question but in fact it is very
>complex. Maybe this is the reason there has been no replies so far? I had
>in
>the back of my mind that somewhere I read something about your question but
>my research ended empty and therefore I will give you my opinion on it. I
>think the answer to your question is no, someone who has not heard the
>Dhamma and commits an akusala deed is in a better position than someone who
>knows the Dhamma, even worse if someone is a commited disciple of the
>Buddha. My reasoning is that someone that knows that a certain deed should
>be avoided and nevertheless does it would have a stronger mental imprint
>because of that than someone who is ignorant of the Dhamma. And that
>stronger imprint means a stronger kamma. Having said that we should
>remember
>that the workings of kamma can be very complex and just as a reminder look
>at the Lonaphala Sutta (AN III.99).
>
>Now the question becomes really complex when you throw in the 'skilful
>means' so highly praised in the Mahayana tradition. And using a skilful
>means interpretation of a certain deed, what apparently would be an akusala
>deed could be regarded as kusala. And this really opens the door for any
>actions to be interpreted anyway you want and to atribute any kamma
>consequences you want.
>
>Metta
>Michael
>
>
>
> >From: nina van gorkom <nilo@...>
> >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Pali] Pali - Every few days - [B094]
> >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:15:12 +0100
> >
> >Dear John and friends,
> >This is interesting. We just discussed in Dhamma Study Group this
>subject.
> >Suppose you do evil without having heard the Dhamma, is this evil greater
> >than when you know it is akusala? I frwd this post to the group.
> >Nina.
> >op 29-10-2003 16:27 schreef John Kelly op palistudent@...:
> >
> > > Pali - Every few days - [B094]
> > > Gair/Karunatillake - Chapter 5 ? Further Readings
> > > Ex. 3. (Part 1 of 2)
> > >
> > > Raajaa aaha: ?Bhante Naagasena, yo jaananto
> > > paapakamma.m karoti, yo ajaananto paapakamma.m karoti,
> > > kassa bahutara.m apu~n~nan?ti?
> > > The king said: "Venerable Nagasena, for whom is the
> > > greater demerit, one who knowingly does evil, or one
> > > who does evil unknowingly??
> >
>
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Re: Pali - Every few days - [B094]