--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank Kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:

> The buddha goes so far as to say the disciple who
> neglects jhana practice is "not one who dwells in the
> dhamma"
>
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an05-073.html
>
>
> "Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma
> as he has heard & studied it and thinks about it,
> evaluates it, and examines it with his intellect. He
> spends the day in Dhamma-thinking. He neglects
> seclusion. He doesn't commit himself to internal
> tranquility of awareness. This is called a monk who is
> keen on thinking, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
>
> Then there is the case where a monk studies the
> Dhamma... [HOWEVER!] He doesn't spend the day in
> Dhamma-study. He doesn't neglect seclusion. He commits
> himself to internal tranquility of awareness. This is
> called a monk who dwells in the Dhamma.
>
> "Now, monk, I have taught you the person who is keen
> on study, the one who is keen on description, the one
> who is keen on recitation, the one who is keen on
> thinking, and the one who dwells in the Dhamma.
> Whatever a teacher should do -- seeking the welfare of
> his disciples, out of sympathy for them -- that have I
> done for you. Over there are the roots of trees; over
> there, empty dwellings. Practice jhana, monk. Don't be
> heedless. Don't later fall into regret. This is our
> message to you."

And

>In fact, to this
>day, I'm still only on lesson 2 of the Gair book, and
>chapter 4 of the de Silva book, despite my earnest
>desire to learn more Pali. Why? Because of priorities.

>_______

Dear Frank,
Certainly only studying Dhamma is of limited value. Still, one of the
advantages of such study, including Pali studies, is that we learn
about the deeper meaning of phrases such as the one you quote
above.The Pali (supplied by Jim Anderson) of an almost identical
phrase:

"Jhaayatha, Cunda, maa pamaadattha maa pacchaa vippa.tisaarino
ahuvattha ..." -- M i 46 (near the end of MN 8). Also found at M i
118 (MN
19) with 'bhikkhave' instead of Cunda.
Here, the commentary interprets "Meditate" as "Increase samatha and
vipassanaa".

"Samatha~nca vipassana~nca va.d.dhethaa ti vutta.m hoti." --MA ii 195
(there's a bit more just before this)
Jim:

>> I know about this translation of 'jhaayatha'. I find
>> that it does not
>> quite agree with the commentary which includes both
>> samatha and
>> vipassanaa. That's why I think 'Meditate' is a
>> better translation than
>> 'Practice jhana'.

"Jhaayatha' is a verb in the 2nd person plural with the -tha ending.
In the
PED, the verbs are entered in their 3rd pers. sing. forms with the -ti
ending. So you will have to look for 'jhaayati' for which you will
find two
entries. The first one has the following senses: to meditate,
contemplate,
think upon, brood over (c. acc.): . . . -- and for the second: to
burn, to
be on fire: . . . They are derived from two distinct roots. In the
commentarial passage from which I quoted "Increase samatha and
vipassanaa"
in explaining 'jhaayatha' there is also the following comment that
helps to
clarify the difference between samatha and vipassana: "Meditate
(upanijjhaayatha) on the 38 objects (aaramma.na) with the meditation
(upanijjhaana) on an object and on aggregates, bases, etc. according
to
anicca, etc. with the meditation on a characteristic (lakkha.na)." --
MA i
195." end of section by Jim Anderson.
-----------
When the texts talk about meditation, jhaya, it is useful to
know that there are two types.
I quoted this to Dimitry earlier: The Dhammapada 371 :"Meditate, o
bhikkhu and be not heedless." (same
pali phrase as the sutta you quoted above.
The atthakatha says "o bhikkhus meditate by the two kinds of
meditative absorptions"
And the tika notes that this is twofold in "the sense of
meditative absorption that arises depending on an object and
meditative absorption that arises dependent on characteristics"
The tika later explains this by saying that the first is (p506
note 6 of carter and palihawadana) "the eight attainments
(jhanas) to be obtained by training the mind in concentrating on
one of the thirty eight objects such as kasina [or metta, or
Buddha or Dhamma or breath etc] and the second means 'insight
wisdom, path and fruit'..to be obtained by reflecting on the
three characteristics'"endquote

Now when it says 'reflecting' this means direct insight into the
actual
characteristics and conditions of the present moment right up to
the vipassana nanas and magga and phala, it is far more than only
thinking about Dhamma.
THe Dhammapada pradipaya (see p457 of carter and palihawadana) says
"to consider the coming into being of rupa on account of
ignorance, craving, kamma and nutrition, and also to see the
mere characteristics of its instantaneous coming into being,
without looking for causative aspect; thus one should consider
the rise of rupa in five ways. Likewise to consider the rise of
the other 4 khandas in the same way...Thus the rise of the
pancakkhanda (five aggregates )is seen in 25 ways. To see that
the rise of the khandas is stopped by abolishing the
causes:ignorance, craving, kamma and nutrition..in this way the
cessation of the agregates should be seen" end quote

As Teng kee pointed out the path out of samsara depends on lakkhana
jhana - insight into the three characteristics of anicca, dukkha and
anatta. The jhana labhi after he leaves mundane jhana must also
develop this type of special samadhi. The sukkha-vipassaka develops
this profound samadhi without having attained mundane jhana.
Which is the superior path? Certainly the texts are clear that the
one who develops both samatha and jhana is the highest. However I
think we should not despise also the lesser path of the sukkha-
vipassaka as this too eventually results in the end of rebirth.
RobertK