Dear Danya,

On your interesting thesis we even had a small discussion here among
friends. Actually, before you came up with your "working thesis" on grace,
we automatically thought of the (christian) concept of grace in a buddhist
context and couldnt bring them together in any way (especially thinking of
grace in a protestant context - it is sooo apart from the Buddhist point of
view - none taking responsibility for your actions other than you. Yourself
the one who eventually has to cross the stream, albeit taking the help of
other kalyana mittas.)

I understand now, that you try to explain the Buddhas to be special
embodiements of the Dhamma, especially in a sense that they possess for
instance the 10 powers and have accumulated sila, samadhi and panna during
inamaginable long aeons - thus they would be kind of a "representative
reality" (sic) who - because of their "grace" convey or "bestow" the dhamma
on other beings even though they are murderers like Angulimala.

Well, i think that the term, as it is so bound up with some of the most
contrary concepts to Buddhist thought (as Yong Peng pointed out) and
Angulimala in fact (as Nina pointed out) was already "under the surface"
ready for understanding the dhamma, that it will be very difficult (to say
the least) to come to terms with it in a Buddhist (tipitaka) context.

That said, i wish you much luck for solving this task, but i am curious to
know, how you came to relate so diverse ideas to each other?

kind regards,

Lennart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danya Furda" <dfurda@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Pali] RE: kamma and grace


> Thanks for your help and suggestions. For the purposes of my thesis, I am
> defining grace as "a gift or favor given by a representative of ultimate
> reality without regard to the recipient's virtue and without which
ultimate
> liberation would not be possible." Many religious traditions embrace a
> concept of grace in this sense. There does not need to be a god or God to
> have a concept of grace. Grace needs not to be a technical term
monopolized
> by Christian theology. I am arguing here, however, that buddhas are
special
> beings and possess abilities and qualities not possessed by human beings
or
> even by devas.
>
> The concept of grace (as defined above) was brought to my attention while
> reading Peter Masefield's excellent book, Divine Revelation in Pali
> Buddhism. I guess my question in terms of grace is whether or not anyone
> else has come across other resources which explore the idea that a buddha
is
> an essential element for Dharma to be transmitted to others.
>
> Thanks Nina for the info on kamma. It appears that kamma is operative
> regardless whereas grace can only occur when a buddha is present in the
> world to reveal the Dharma to those ready to hear it. Also, I am
> distinguishing between the concept of grace and that of compassion. For
> something to be "grace," rather than just simply "compassion," it must
lead
> to assured ultimate liberation.
>
> Danya
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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