Dear Robert and friends,

you are right, Robert. Thanks for pointing that out. Padaparamas are
indeed the exceptions.

metta,
Yong Peng

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rjkjp1 wrote:
> > As for the word kamma, with right understanding and right effort,
> all
> > humans can attain nibbana here and now in their present lives,
> > regardless of their past kamma.
> >_________________
> Dear Yong peng,
> I understand this point differently.
> There are said to be at this present time only two types of human :
> Neyya and padaparama.
> Neyya may or may not be able to attain in this present life .
> However, padaparama definitely cannot attain in this life and can
> only make conditions that may lead to success in future lives.
> Even at the Buddha's time there were those such as King Ajatasattu
> whose kamma (in this case killing his father) meant they could not
> attain in that life .
> Robertk