Re: Building a Sima

Dear Samanera,

I've yet to receive some tapes or CDs you mentioned earlier on in our
communications.

Sukhi.

Piya

----- Original Message -----
From: "Samanera Piyaratana" <piyaratana@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 28 June, 2003 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Building a Sima

> Dear Friends,
>
> I am surely not a Vinaya expert, and I am not so sure that this
conversation
> is fitting for the Pali group. However, for those interested I would
> recommend these three links:
>
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc1/index.html
>
> This is Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu's first book on the monastic code (for
> bhikkhus). It follows the format of the 227 Patimokkha rules. It is an
> excellent read for anyone interested in the monastic code. Lots of
> translations from the Vinaya. Lots of origin stories. If you like law
and
> classifications, you may just fall in love with the code.
>
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc2/index.html
>
> This is his second book on the monastic code. It covers all of the rules
> not included in the 227 Patimokkha rules. Yes, there are more than 227.
> Many, many more. This second books contains lots of procedural items as
> well as rules about sima grounds
> (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc2/ch13.html)
>
>
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/ariyesako/layguide.html
>
> This is a very good guide directed at lay people. Much less technical,
and
> a good introduction for anyone. I dont' think it talks about simas at
all.
>
> As far as breaking laws, I am sure there is a rule for bhikkhus (and
> bhikkhunis) that says you must follow all the local laws. So the next
> question is, are you a bhikkhu? Remember, lay people can't break the
> monastic code. And I know with kutis, there are far more restrictions on
> when a monk constructs it as opposed to lay people building it and
offering
> it to a monk. But be sure to keep the lay precepts in mind, though. Will
> you be lying if you build this building before the zoning is changed?
>
> Also, in general, facing directions don't ever seem to matter. So I don't
> think there is a specific way (east/west, etc) that the door needs to
face.
> But there are lots of things listed in the book above, and I must confess,
I
> didn't study the sima section very carefully. If I'm not mistaken, though,
> the sima hall here at the Bhavana Society faces east, but that is probably
> just because of the lay of the land.
>
> With metta,
> Samanera Piyaratana
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lennart Lopin" <lenni_lop@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Building a Sima
>
>
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > If Mahakassapa and the other arahats had so much respect for the Vinaya
> that
> > they didnt dare to change a single rule, why should we start changing
> them?
> > Hopefully we got a Vinaya expert on this list to answer steven_19988's
> > important question. In case of land status it is sometimes a question of
> > appeasing the unseen beings who live on that land... But i have no clue
> what
> > the Vinaya says to that question....
> >
> > Lennart
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Frank Kuan" <fcckuan@...>
> > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Pali] Building a Sima
> >
> >
> > > Just a few thoughts:
> > > 1) Tibetans and Chinese Buddhists practicing any kind
> > > of Buddhism in China are probably violating many of
> > > their country's laws. The Dalai Lama is considered a
> > > dangerous outlaw by the Chinese. He's pretty good
> > > company to be in if you decide to go the outlaw path.
> > > 2) I wish Mahakassapa had honored the Buddha's
> > > requests to abolish minor vinaya rules. I mean come
> > > on, for Gotama's sake, Mahakassapa is one of the most
> > > highly decorated Arhats, he ought to be able to figure
> > > out SOME minor rules to safely drop. 227 is way to
> > > many.
> > > 3) What's the legal penalty in Malaysia for violating
> > > the law of building a sima? Rather than try to make a
> > > fancy interpretation of vinaya rules, I would take the
> > > pragmatic approach and determine the risk involved,
> > > whether the penalty is severe enough to warrant
> > > caution.
> > > 4) If you guard the sense doors well, exercising right
> > > view, right mindfulness, right effort, you would never
> > > have to be concerned about breaking (in spirit) any
> > > vinaya rule, even if technically some minor rules are
> > > broken.
> > >
> > > -fk
> > >
> > >
> > > --- steven_19988 <mettang@...> wrote:
> > > > Dear Mr. Piya Tan,
> > > > I would be much obliged if you could advise me on
> > > > the vinaya rule in building a sima. Are there any
> > > > rules stipulating the direction the entrance of the
> > > > sima should be facing? Should it be facing East?
> > > > We just bought a piece of agricultural land and
> > > > we plan to build a sima on it. For your
> > > > information,
> > > > in our country (Malaysia), it is illegal to erect
> > > > any building on agricultural land without first
> > > > changing
> > > > the status of land for religious purposes from the
> > > > local authorities. However, the procedure to
> > > > convert
> > > > the status of land takes a long time, usually two to
> > > > three years. We cannot wait that long. We are
> > > > planning to build the sima first and later applying
> > > > to the local authorities to convert the status of
> > > > land
> > > > from an agricultural to a religious land status.
> > > > Usually, the local authorities have no objections in
> > > >
> > > > converting the status of land but it takes a lot of
> > > > time due to the difficult procedures to get an
> > > > approval.
> > > > So, do we transgress or violate any of the vinaya
> > > > rules in building the sima first and
> > > > getting the land converted later? Does violating a
> > > > law mean transgressing any of the vinaya rules in
> > > > this context? We wouldn't like to build a sacred
> > > > building transgressing the vinaya rules to our
> > > > utmost
> > > > sincerity.
> > > > Sadhu for your valuable advice
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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