Dear Friends,

I am surely not a Vinaya expert, and I am not so sure that this conversation
is fitting for the Pali group. However, for those interested I would
recommend these three links:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc1/index.html

This is Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu's first book on the monastic code (for
bhikkhus). It follows the format of the 227 Patimokkha rules. It is an
excellent read for anyone interested in the monastic code. Lots of
translations from the Vinaya. Lots of origin stories. If you like law and
classifications, you may just fall in love with the code.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc2/index.html

This is his second book on the monastic code. It covers all of the rules
not included in the 227 Patimokkha rules. Yes, there are more than 227.
Many, many more. This second books contains lots of procedural items as
well as rules about sima grounds
(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc2/ch13.html)


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/ariyesako/layguide.html

This is a very good guide directed at lay people. Much less technical, and
a good introduction for anyone. I dont' think it talks about simas at all.

As far as breaking laws, I am sure there is a rule for bhikkhus (and
bhikkhunis) that says you must follow all the local laws. So the next
question is, are you a bhikkhu? Remember, lay people can't break the
monastic code. And I know with kutis, there are far more restrictions on
when a monk constructs it as opposed to lay people building it and offering
it to a monk. But be sure to keep the lay precepts in mind, though. Will
you be lying if you build this building before the zoning is changed?

Also, in general, facing directions don't ever seem to matter. So I don't
think there is a specific way (east/west, etc) that the door needs to face.
But there are lots of things listed in the book above, and I must confess, I
didn't study the sima section very carefully. If I'm not mistaken, though,
the sima hall here at the Bhavana Society faces east, but that is probably
just because of the lay of the land.

With metta,
Samanera Piyaratana

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lennart Lopin" <lenni_lop@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Building a Sima


> Dear Frank,
>
> If Mahakassapa and the other arahats had so much respect for the Vinaya
that
> they didnt dare to change a single rule, why should we start changing
them?
> Hopefully we got a Vinaya expert on this list to answer steven_19988's
> important question. In case of land status it is sometimes a question of
> appeasing the unseen beings who live on that land... But i have no clue
what
> the Vinaya says to that question....
>
> Lennart
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Kuan" <fcckuan@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Building a Sima
>
>
> > Just a few thoughts:
> > 1) Tibetans and Chinese Buddhists practicing any kind
> > of Buddhism in China are probably violating many of
> > their country's laws. The Dalai Lama is considered a
> > dangerous outlaw by the Chinese. He's pretty good
> > company to be in if you decide to go the outlaw path.
> > 2) I wish Mahakassapa had honored the Buddha's
> > requests to abolish minor vinaya rules. I mean come
> > on, for Gotama's sake, Mahakassapa is one of the most
> > highly decorated Arhats, he ought to be able to figure
> > out SOME minor rules to safely drop. 227 is way to
> > many.
> > 3) What's the legal penalty in Malaysia for violating
> > the law of building a sima? Rather than try to make a
> > fancy interpretation of vinaya rules, I would take the
> > pragmatic approach and determine the risk involved,
> > whether the penalty is severe enough to warrant
> > caution.
> > 4) If you guard the sense doors well, exercising right
> > view, right mindfulness, right effort, you would never
> > have to be concerned about breaking (in spirit) any
> > vinaya rule, even if technically some minor rules are
> > broken.
> >
> > -fk
> >
> >
> > --- steven_19988 <mettang@...> wrote:
> > > Dear Mr. Piya Tan,
> > > I would be much obliged if you could advise me on
> > > the vinaya rule in building a sima. Are there any
> > > rules stipulating the direction the entrance of the
> > > sima should be facing? Should it be facing East?
> > > We just bought a piece of agricultural land and
> > > we plan to build a sima on it. For your
> > > information,
> > > in our country (Malaysia), it is illegal to erect
> > > any building on agricultural land without first
> > > changing
> > > the status of land for religious purposes from the
> > > local authorities. However, the procedure to
> > > convert
> > > the status of land takes a long time, usually two to
> > > three years. We cannot wait that long. We are
> > > planning to build the sima first and later applying
> > > to the local authorities to convert the status of
> > > land
> > > from an agricultural to a religious land status.
> > > Usually, the local authorities have no objections in
> > >
> > > converting the status of land but it takes a lot of
> > > time due to the difficult procedures to get an
> > > approval.
> > > So, do we transgress or violate any of the vinaya
> > > rules in building the sima first and
> > > getting the land converted later? Does violating a
> > > law mean transgressing any of the vinaya rules in
> > > this context? We wouldn't like to build a sacred
> > > building transgressing the vinaya rules to our
> > > utmost
> > > sincerity.
> > > Sadhu for your valuable advice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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