Dear Nina,

Kobkhun maak khrab! It all makes sense now. It means that Bakkula stood for
alms outside the house below the eaves, never entering indoors. The word
"nimbodaka" vl "nibbodaka" (following CSCD)--thanks to Jim Anderson
here--must mean "eaves".

Buddhadatta's English-Pali Dictionary confirms this when I looked up under
"eaves" = "nimbakoda, chadanaagga".

As for "inda,khiila" I think this is the "lak sao" in Thai (if my memory
remains), in which case it would be right at the heart of the city (like in
ancient Bangkok). Obliquely, the Comy probably means that Bakkula did not
venture into the heart of the village or town, but merely standing before
the doors under the eaves of the houses near the village fringe (gamaanta).

The Thai Buddhist scriptural tradition is often very helpful in moments like
this. In his paper "Suicide in Buddhism--Post-Canonical Deflections" (2000)
delivered at the Y2000 Global Conference on Buddhism here in Singapore, the
Sinhalese monk Dhammavihari Bhikkhu (Jothiya Dhirasekera) makes a very
interesting and honest remark regarding the Sinhalese (Sikhavalanda &
Sikhavalanda Vinisa, 9-11th century Vinaya works), Burmese and Cambodian
mistranslation of "Na ca bhikkhave attaana.m paatetabba.m" (V 3:82) wrongly
rendered as "A monk should not commit suicide" (which is already connoted in
the 3rd Paaraajika). He says that only the Thai translation is correct: "A
monk should not let himself fall (from a high place". This rule was made
after a monk attempted suicide by jumping off Vulture's Peak and landed on a
basket-maker and killing him.

May your winters always be pleasantly warm (I remember ants happily crawling
out of the ground at every sign of warmth when I was in the Netherlands) and
your summers cool, Nina. Thankfully the heat wave here is over: I suffered a
bad bout of speaker's cough then.

Sukhi.

Piya

----- Original Message -----
From: "nina van gorkom" <nilo@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] nimbodakapatana.t.thaana


Dear Piya,
I looked at my Thai Co: it says, <but here it means the monk went as far as
where the water falls from the eaves (Thai: chaaj khaa, overhanging edge of
the roof). >
Thai: prasong aw tang tee thi tang heeng namtok cak chaajkhaa.

I cannot help much here, but I think that it means that he approached a
house not even as far as the doorpost, but up to where the water falls from
the eaves. It shows modesty, taking more distance.
Co has then a question:< where was the alms giving then?
Answer: People knew the monks all over the two cities(?). When the monk came
only to the doorpost,>...then as in English:..with his almsbowl and the
people filled his bowl with foods of
various flavours.>
From the Q I conlcude it is all about the place where the monk stood:
where...
The nimbo is the Margosa tree (according to Buddhadatta). The same as the
Neem tree?
But here no connection with those eaves.
Nina.
op 23-06-2003 05:20 schreef Piya Tan op libris@...:


> MA says that in Mahaa Sakul'udaayi S (M 77; MA 3:240) antara,ghare means
> from the village post (inda,khîla), but here it means from
> nimbodakapatana.t.thaana, that is, the elder simply went up to the doors
of
> the houses with his almsbowl and the people filled his bowl with foods of
> various flavours (MA 4:194 f).
>
>



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