Hello Suan, John, and All,

Suan: I'm well Suan and hope you are also. I enjoy your posts,
always reliably accurate and containing interesting background
information to flesh out my understanding. Thank-you.

John: thanks for your post - it is a little sad not to be with your
brother and family - but videos and photos are great, and you can be
one of those 'irritating' uncles who pats him on the head and
says "My! haven't you grown!" each time you see him. My son and
daughter turned into young adults in the blink of an eye, and I was
with them all the time. :-)

I checked the Introduction to Warder which states:
"v may be somewhat similar to English v when standing alone (as
initial or between vowels), but (despite Aggavamsa's description)
like English w when combined with another consonant; many speakers of
Pali pronounce v always as English w (i.e. as a pure labial)."
Buddhadatta says "j,n,p,b,m,r,l,v and h are pronounced just as they
are pronounced in English."
Charles Duroisell says "v, not preceded by a consonant has the sound
of v, in vine, vile. But preceded by a consonant, it is sounded like
w in wind, win; tva, therefore, is pronounced twa." On balance, I
think pronouncing v as v is the safest way for a beginner.

I am surprised at my liking of Pali - I expected to gain a useful
tool but never expected to find delight. I wonder if Pali was always
written in 'proper' Pali - and whether colloquial Pali could have
been used occasionally? e.g. those bits where people were angry,
exasperated, and humiliated by being defeated by the Blessed One in
debate and who then 'vomited blood and died'. John and Suan, you
would be familiar with the Oz expressions (sorry for the
vulgarity) "I was so pissed off that I was just spewing(i.e.
vomiting)" and "I was so angry that I was spitting chips"?
Is there a possibility that the 'vomited blood and died' expression
was just another form of saying someone was overwhelmed by anger, and
not necessarily that it actually happened that way? [Otherwise one
wonders a number of things from a religious perspective about why the
Buddha would have allowed the conversation to continue to such an
end.]

metta
Christine

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "abhidhammika" <suanluzaw@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Christine, and All
>
> How are you, Dhamma friends?
>
> The letter 'v' in Pali should be pronounced exactly as the
letter 'v'
> in English.
>
> Here is a quote from the traditional Pali grammar.
>
> "Vakaaro danto.t.thajo."
>
> "Va sound is dentally and labially produced."
>
> Section 2, Saññaavidhaana, Sandhika.n.da, Padaruupasiddhi By
> Buddhappiyo.
>
> Section 2, Terminology, Chapter on Sandhi, "Finished Forms" By
> Buddhappiyo. This work is a commentary on Kaccaayana's Grammar.
>
> Here is my commentary.
>
> "Va" sound is (danto.t.thajo) produced by pressing upper teeth on
the
> lower lip.
>
> Myanmars pronounce "v" as "w" because Myanmar script "o" represents
> both "v" for Pali and "w" for Burmese sounds, which do not include
> the "v" sound.
>
> So when Myanmars, who do not check the Pali grammar texts, see the
> Myanmar script "o" for "v" in Pali texts, they pronounce it as
though
> it were "w".
>
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Suan
>
> http://www.bodhiology.org