Dear Lars, all other newcomers and friends,
Lars, I appreciate it that you really reflect on avijjaasava. and also this:
< I became quite

> curious about the real meaning behind all those translations (sometimes it
> is really interesting how much more meaning it makes when you read the
> Pali). > This is so true.

op 11-03-2003 21:42 schreef Lars Siebold op khandha5@...:
. If you look at the PED it also suggests the translation as

> outflows. It has:
> 1. spirit, the intoxicating extract or secretion of a tree or flower
> 2. discharge from a sore
> So aasava, also in it's non-buddhist use, seems to have had the connotation
> of outflow rather than inflow. And while I can still think of kaama and
> bhaava as inflows I have a hard time seeing avijja as something coming from
> outside.

Nina: O.K. I shall quote part of what I wrote in my "Cetasikas", but not
all, I do not want to make it too long on this list. This may answer some of
your questions.

<The ³Atthasåliní² (I, Part I, Ch II, 48) explains that åsavas flow from the
senses and the mind. In all planes where there is nåma arising åsavas occur,
even in the highest plane of existence which is the fourth arúpa-brahma
plane. The åsavas are like liquor which has fermented for a long time, the
³Atthasåliní³ explains. The åsavas are like poisonous drugs or intoxicants.
The ³Visuddhimagga² (XXII, 56) states that the åsavas are exuding ³from
unguarded sense-doors like water from cracks in a pot, in the sense of
constant trickling². The åsavas keep on flowing from birth to death, they
are also flowing at this moment. Are we not attached to what we see?
The canker of ignorance, avijjåsava, is moha cetasika. It is ignorance of
the four noble Truths, of the past, the future or both, and of the
³Dependant Origination² (Dhammasanga.ni, § 1100). We have innumerable
moments of ignorance. Ignorance is dangerous, at the moment it arises we do
not realize that there is ignorance....

The ³Visuddhimagga² states about the åsavas that they ³exude from unguarded
sense-doors². The sense-doors are ³guarded² through the development of
satipa.t.thåna. We read in the Gradual Sayings (Book of the Threes, Ch II, §
16, The Sure Course) that a monk who possesses three qualities is
³proficient in the practice leading to the Sure Course² and ³has strong
grounds for the destruction of the åsavas². These three qualities are
moderation in eating, the guarding of the six doors and vigilance. We read
concerning the guarding of the six doors:

And how does he keep watch over the door of his sense faculties?
Herein, a monk, seeing an object with the eye, does not grasp at the general
features or at the details thereof. Since coveting and dejection, evil,
unprofitable states might overwhelm one who dwells with the faculty of the
eye uncontrolled, he applies himself to such control, sets a guard over the
faculty of the eye, attains control thereof....
The same is said about the other doorways. The six doorways should be
guarded. How does one, when seeing an object with the eye, not ³grasp at the
general features or at the details thereof²? In being mindful of the reality
which appears. This is the way to see realities as they are, to see them as
impermanent, dukkha and non-self.>

L:> Buddha didn't use certain terms without a reason and that there is some

> deeper psychological significance to them, so I generally prefer to
> translate them rather literally where possible.

N: Quite right. The aasavas keep on flowing, also now. All we learn, all we
read in the suttas pertains to our life now, it is not theory at all.
Avijjaa is so hard to detect, because it covers up the truth, it is
darkness. Without the Buddha we would not know about it. It is the first
link in the Dependent Origination, the conditions for the cycle of birth and
death to go on and on.
When the citta is not kusala, intent on daana, siila or bhaavanaa, all our
actions and speech, even thinking, is akusala. Avijjaa accompanies each
akusala citta, but we do not notice this, the truth is covered up.
Ignorance, not knowing the four noble Truths: the five khandhas are dukkha,
they are impermanent and thus unsatisfactory. We do not see their
impermanence each moment. How to know this? Through vipassanaa, or in other
woords satipa.t.thaana. Guarding the sense-doors. No need to first develop
siila or samatha. We should not delay developing more understanding of our
life, it is urgent. Hearing the Dhamma, considering it, creates conditions
for awareness now. But first intellectual understanding, pariyatti, and
considering what we hear in our life now, that is very important.
(If you like to discuss this more, I want to refer to dsg yahoo list. In
fact, I shall frwd this post to them.)
Derek wrote:
The sense I get is of aasava being a fundamental, underlying tendency
in the mind that drives all other defiled mental activity.
N: the underlying tendencies are the anusayas, another group of defilements.
They are like microbes, lying dormant in each citta and can condition the
arising of akusala citta.
Nina.