op 04-03-2003 14:24 schreef Ong Yong Peng <ypong001@...> op
ypong001@...:

> (3) DN31 Sigalovada Sutta para.245 [PTS3.181]
> Imassa cattaaro kammakilesaa pahiinaa hontii"ti
>
> Thanks also for pointing out the mistake on imassa. Can I say it is
> genitive - "his"? On the other hand, it may be dative - "for him".

N: I would be inclined to dative: for him.

Remark: We had the sentence:
"Tena hi, mahaaraaja, bhaasassuu"ti.. I have in Warder Ch 28, that this is
for emphazis or dignity. I found it a special form.

Y: For "kammakilesaa", I am not sure if it is a dvanda compound. I

> refer to Practical Grammar of the Pali Language by Charles
> Duroiselle. According to the book §542-543, if "kammakilesaa" is a
> dvanda compound, it would mean "kammaa ca kilesaa" - actions and
> defilements.

N: The relevant Co: <kamma-kileso ti kamma~nca ta.m
kilesa-sampayuttattaa kileso caati kamma-kileso.
There is the word ca just before ti: caati. the ta.m could be here:
therefore, as . kilesa-sampayittattaa: sampayuttattaa: the fact of being
accompanied, thus, sampayutta is made into an abstract noun by adding taa,
fem. (Warder Ch 25) Thus it could still be a dvanda, but I like to wait for
the opinion of others.
Y: However, if it is kilesa, defilement, that motivates kamma, conduct.
Then "action due to defilement" or "action of defilement" is a

> reasonable translation. Two other possible renderings I can think of
> are: "unwholesome action", a common term that may refer to something
> else in Pali; "act of defilement", if kamma can also refers to "act".

> Under the entry "kamma" in PED (pg139), its explanation for kamma-
> kilesaa is "depravity of action, bad works". To me, "bad works" does
> not really reflect the original Buddhist idea, and "depravity of
> action" seems to refer to a condition of 'action' rather
> than 'action' alone. What do you think?

N: My choice would be action due to defilement, because this includes then
the info derived from the Co. It is also right according to the Abhidhamma.
A very good suggestion.
Y: For (5) Dhammapada 63

> baalo ca pa.n.ditamaanii sa ve "baalo"ti vuccati
> Would this be better? - And a fool, [who is] proud of his
> cleverness, he is called "fool" indeed.

N: Yes, I think so. For the English, I would eliminate <he> before: is
called...
Amazing, so many issues come out of a few sentences.
Before we know, we are getting ready for the next Word by Word.
Day by Day: I dread it when it is turned around to English- Pali and we have
to translate all the shooting, jackals, dogs, farmers, stones, etc. into
Pali.
With appreciation of all your efforts,
Nina.