Hi, Derek,
op 03-03-2003 00:23 schreef Derek Cameron <derekacameron@...> op
derekacameron@...:

>
>>> katame ca pana braahma.na-kara.naa dhammaati?
>
>> and moreover, which are the things (dhammas) that make one a
>> brahman?
>
> That's an interesting reading of it -- dhammaa as "things."

N: Things is not so good, better: factors. which are the factors..
Woodward: what are the things...
D: I had read it as "in what way" (katame) are "a brahmin's actions"

> (braahma.na-kara.naa) "morally good" (dhammaa). So, dhamma in the
> sense of "in accordance with the good," "morally good," "virtuous."

dhamma: can be very wide. I did not think of kusala here.
katama is which.

>> udaana: exclamation of knowledge and joy (Masefield: euphoria)
>
> I hadn't picked up on the idea that "udaana" had a sense of joy about
> it. Maybe "joyous exclamation"

N: to me it has something abundant , abundant with enthusiasm.

>>> "Yo braahma.no baahita-paapa-dhammo nihu.mhu"nko
>>> nikkasaavo yatatto vedantaguu vuusita-brahma-cariyo
>
>> A brahman who has abandoned defilements,
>
> "abandoned defilements" for the more literal "rejected sinful things"?

N: papa: evil, yes, what you say is O.K.

>> who is not a grumbler,
>> free from impurity, self-restrained,
>> who excels in the vedas
>
> I had vedantaguu as something liked "of highest wisdom."

N: This must be the meaning. Speaking to a brahman the vedas are meaningful,
but now: veda in a higher sense, like Tivedha. The Buddha gave a higher
sense to certain notions people had, so that they would grasp the deeper
meaning.

>> and lives the brahman life,
>
> For vuusita-brahma-cariyo I thought maybe "perfected in the holy
> life" or "perfected in celibacy"

N: brahmacariya: in a narrower sense: celibacy of recluses, in a wider
sense: all who develop the eightfold Path. It is often tr. as divine life,
godly life, holy life. Vuusita: lived.
As always, there are many points, even in a few lines. Interesting to go
into it.
Just now I looked up the Co, tr by Masefield, and again it helps us:
<brama.nakara.naa: they are making one a brahmin... meaning producing the
state of a brahmin.>
...It is said that he did not teach that brahmin Dhamma because he was
unreceptive to Dhamma teaching.
<Whoever be a brahmin (yo braahma.no):whoever, on account of that state in
which evil has been ousted, be a brahmin...> <being no "Hum hum" type >
<"Veda- end- gone" on account of the fact of his being gone, by means of the
Vedas reckoned as the knowledges associated with the four paths, to the end,
to the culmination, of the formations, to nibbaana, or alternatively to the
end of the (three) Vedas, being one who has lived the Brahmacariya ...>
Now, yassussadaa natthi kuhiñci loketi. The last sentence: ussadaa, meaning
excessive: Co has: preponderance:< he for whom there are no preponderances,
viz. the preponderance of lust, the preponderance of hatred, ... of
delusion,... of conceit, and the preponderance or (wrong) view, with
repespect to anything, even with respect to a single object, amids the
entire cohabitants of this world, even, meaning (he for whom these
preponderances) are abandoned without remainder.>
Nina