Hi Khael,
a) In some sutta passages, it says somethign to the
effect of :
"dependent on consciousness, name and form arise."
and then:
"dependent on name and form, consciousness arises"

b) The most frequent occurence I see of consciousness
seems to be the 6 types of consciousness that arise
when sense organ meets sense object, the meeting of
the 3 being "contact"

c) another sutta passage says in the dependent
origination formula, "with contact as condition,
perception (sanna?) , thinking, mental
proliferation..."


There are many unresolved and unclear issues for me:
1) (this is why I'm learning bits of pali to try to
resolve questions like this) is vinnana, citta, mano
the same, different, sometimes, always?
2) is the consciousness in the 12 links of dependent
origination the same as the consciousness that arises
at the 6 sense doors when sensory organ meets sensory
object?
3) is consciousness a more "low level" sensory input
process or is perception more "low level" (meaning a
more raw data input free of conceptualizastion,
distortion). for example, a computer program is
written in a "high level" language similar to english,
but the internal representation to the machine is a
stream of "low level" binary electrical "on" and "off"
signals.

Khael is suggesting that perception/sanna is lower
level than consciousness, but sutta reference (b)
suggests to me that consciousness is more low level,
and perception/sanna adds some comparison to memory
and subjectivity. But the other sutta passage where
both consciousness and perception seem to be going
through a process of discrimination (comparison with
memory), and the visuddhimagga commentary also to me
leaves the question unresolved.

Still digging, still no answers, still confused... :-)
Will research and comment later...

-fk




__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com