--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank Kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:

>
> I've also never been clear on what the aggregate of
> consciousness is, and how it differs from the
> aggregate of perception (sanna).

_______________________

Dear Frank,
The ancient commentaries give many helpful points about the
differences. The aggregate of consciousness (vinnana khandha, citta)
is the leader in knowing and experiencing. I give a quote from one
text:
The visuddhimagga Xiv3 "for though the state of
knowing (janana-bhava) is equally present in perception(sanna),
nevertheless perception is the mere perceiving of an object as , say,
blue or yeelow; it cannot bring about the penetration of its
characteristic as impermanent, painful and not-self
(xiv3 ) "consciousness knows the objects as blue or yellow, and it
brings about penetration of its characteristics, but it cannot bring
about, by endeavouring, the manisfestation of the path.
Understanding (panna) knows the object in the way stated, and it
brings about by endeavouring, the manifestation of the path."

Very hard to really understand directly because these realities all
arise together. No matter how much effort is applied if it is done
with sakkya-ditthi it cannot be known: In the quote from the
Visuddhimagga we see that
citta(without panna) can know the characteristic of dhammas, it can
perceive subtle feelings colours, sounds, hardness, heat - but if
panna(understanding, wisdom) is not present one may be still
developing the wrong path.

Vis. Xiv6 " [the] difference is consequently subtle and hard to see.
Hence the venerable nagasena said: "A difficult thing O king has been
done by the Blessed one….the defining of the immaterial states of
consciousness and its concomitants, which occur with a single object,
and which he declared thus: this is contact, this is feeling , this
is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness "(milinda
panha 87)
RobertK

>
> "And why do you call it 'perception'? Because it
> perceives, thus it is called 'perception.' What does
> it perceive? It perceives blue, it perceives yellow,
> it perceives red, it perceives white. Because it
> perceives, it is called perception.
>
> "And why do you call it 'consciousness'? Because it
> cognizes, thus it is called consciousness. What does
> it cognize? It cognizes what is sour, bitter, pungent,
> sweet, alkaline, non-alkaline, salty, & unsalty.
> Because it cognizes, it is called consciousness.
> --------------------
>
> Seems to me both perception and consciousness
> aggregates involve discrimination between present
> moment of reality and a memory to compare to.
>
> The examples from the sutta really don't shed any
> light on how perception and consciousness differ.
>
>
> -fk
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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