Hi Khael,

Welcome to the exciting world of Pali and translation.

The Mahaavedalla Sutta (M 1:298/43.35) has a very interesting and beautiful
statement in connection with "pamaa.na":

raago...doso...moho pamaa.nakara.no
Lust...hate...delusion is a maker of measurement. (Bhikkhu Bodhi in "The
Middle Length Discourses" 2001:395 & n)

A similar statement is made in the Pa.tisambhidaamagga 2:127/13.46:

Defilements are bound up with [the limitation of] measure. (Nyanamoli in
Pm:~N 314).

By extension and practice, it is acceptable to regard the "appam~n~na" as
"illimitable, immeasurable" (or even "without criteria" if one is
broad-minded enough). Those who have done the Cultivation of Lovingkindness,
or even know some theory regarding it, never fail to be told that for
Lovingkindness to be fulfilled, it has to go beyond any barrier, that is, to
be all inclusive, to include especially those whom who do not like, those
who are different from us ( which of course, includes those who translate
differently from us :)

What I love about the Pali Suttas (the canon I mean) is their innate
simplicity, where different sections of the canon help explain difficulties
elsewhere (even without Commentaries, which are of course useful).

I suppose we have to choose between pontificating over the right
translations, definitions etc. or about giving up of the notion "I am right"
and seeking the right answers (or path). If we have this latter open
friendly shoulder-standing than we have the benefit of those giants who have
helped us understand the Suttas and Buddhism better.

Some two decades ago (when I was a young Theravada monk) and corresponding
with Miss I.B. Horner (then President of the Pali Text Society), I pointed
out a minor error in her translation in "the Book of Discipline" (her
Vinaya). He reply had no trace of pontification or even scholarly air: she
humbly remarked that how easy it is for even scholars (read experts) to make
err and thanked me for pointing out the error. My good karma is to have met
many such scholars while I was in Europe and the Berkeley, California.

Although some might dismiss the early translations of the Pali texts by the
Pali Text Society are by now dated and contain many inaccuracies, etc, I
prefer to see this as a great development or awakening towards a better
presentation of Pali literature, or a growing focus over many lives in our
vision of Buddhist texts. What is admirable about these early translations
is that they employ a high standard of academic discipline and system that
helps us to locate and use the Pali texts with authenticity and clarity.

Sukhi.

P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Khael Jasso" <halakaeloim@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] 4 States of Mind, and, by the way,intro


> Hi everyone
>
>
> I have been reading over this forum for some time but
> never had the chance to compose my intro, to this nice
> place in the net.
> In brief: my name is Jaime (James) 20 years old, live
> in Mexico, Dhammist (Taoist) for 4+ years, Buddhist
> for 2+, inclined to learn pali (1.5+ years) to read
> the Buddhist Tipitaka.
> I was reading this discussion about the word metta,
> its translations and meaning.
> Unconditional Love (or loving kindness) is, I think, a
> good English translation of metta, as it communicates
> the all encompassing quality of this mental state,
> that is in essence unconditional, or given with no
> condition whatsoever to each and every being, even as
> it is delimited to the temporal gap in wich it is
> practiced, nevertheless no condition is required in a
> being to receive it.
> Keeping concordance, the brahmaviharas are all
> appamaanna, as Dimitry pointed out, but I differ in
> the interpretation, as pamaanna (1) means measure,
> size, amount, so appamaa.na turns to be im mesurable,
> un sizeable, un amountable, exactly what metta is, in
> a twofold way.
> The size or delimitation of the cosmos, loka, is
> deliberately not described by the Buddha. He neither
> sided with finite nor with infinite, in conclusion no
> delimitated size or measure is aplied to the cosmos,
> rendering it to un sizeable, un measurable; so if a
> thought of goodwill is spreaded to each and every
> being in the whole cosmos, in this way it has
> transcended measure( encompassing something beyond
> measure).
> Secondly, the goodwill radiated in metta, as it is
> brought to perfection, is also un measurable, for it
> is radiated freely, without obstacles like hate,
> ill-will and envy, destined to wish the highest bliss
> and happiness to each being, the sort of health and
> security that is boundless, unending and supreme; in
> short the goodwill radiated to each being is simply
> immeasurable.
>
> Therefore, the immeasurableness of the unconditional
> loving-kindness is squarefold, for this I have heard
> (read) :
>
> If with uncorrupted mind you feel good will for even
> one being, you become skilled from that. But a Noble
> One produces a mind of sympathy for all beings, an
> abundance of merit.
> (taken from access to insight, itivuttaka-27)
>
> In conclusion, in my personal opinion , the word metta
> is a very humble ( but difficult to translate) word
> for such a wonderful meaning, that must be
> experienced, and it is only understood then; so the
> words we use in our languages should by only
> provisional bridges, trying to reflect the meaning in
> the most skillful and useful way.
>
>
> Metta
>
> James
>
>
>
> 1 Pamanna (p. 416) (f.) [abstr. fr. pamana, for
> *pamanya, grd. form. of pa+ma for the usual pameyya]
> only neg. ap° immeasurableness Vbh 272 sq. (catasso
> appamannayo, viz. metta, karuna, mudita, upekha). See
> <XREF="APPAMANNA."appamanna.
>
>
>
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