Frank,

And now, you should read section 10. We agree on the essentials, that's
great.

I like to visualize the Buddha as a man of constant good humour, and hear
his words, even the strongest, in that light. It makes a lot of sense then
(to me anyway).

Sukhi.

P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Kuan" <fcckuan@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:08 AM
Subject: Take a bite out of that sandwich Re: [Pali] Fwd: Aranavibhanga
Sutta Re: Maharahulovada Sutta update


> Hi Piya,
> --- Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:
> > Perhaps a close
> > reflective reading of
> > section 8 might help. [of m139]
>
> I reread that section, both in your translation in
> B.Bodhi's, and I still have the same interpretation.
> The Buddha in many suttas calls out the name of the
> disciple when praising wholesome qualities. Stricly
> speaking, the Buddha contradicts his own advice in
> M139. Other examples from other suttas: when the
> Buddha points out wrong views in his disciples by
> calling them "misguided fools".
>
> What I conclude from this is that the Buddha could
> still use derogatory or complimentary phrases that
> appears "personal", but only the speaker would know
> whether they utter statements like that free of any
> ego-grasping. My guess is that in M139, the Buddha is
> probably cautioning his disciples to be prudent about
> pointing out wrong religious views for example to
> others who cling very dearly to them, rather than a
> directive to carry out that instruction in every minor
> situation, for example in the company of those noble
> disciples who would not wrongly grasp on to
> misperceptions of conventional language.
>
>
> > "turd-like" [describing sense-pleasures] brings out
> the Pali sense more clearly
> > here [than b.bodhi's translation "vile"]
>
> It's wonderful that the Buddha [when talking to
> disples who can handle the full truth] didn't pull any
> punches. "Filthy" tones it down too much. A muddy
> automobile is filthy. A dusty window is filthy. Sense
> pleasures are a shit-sandwich.
>
> For those of you in polite society, I should explain
> the nuance of this expression. A prime example of this
> occurs when for example, a boss passes down a very
> unsavory task to his staff, all of whom must perform
> the task rather than assign just one person to do the
> entire job. One of wiser senior members might utter
> the statement, "[The task] is a shit-sandwich, and
> everyone has to take a bite." Meaning it is
> unavoidable fate for everyone to partake in eating
> that dungheap.
>
> When applied to the context of sensual pleasures, it's
> a brilliant metaphor. The worldly view on the matter
> is that the only way to true happiness is to titillate
> the 5 cords of sense pleasure. Conventional wisdom
> holds that it is impossible to find happiness without
> taking a bite out of that sandwich and taking the
> negative side effects as a necessary consequence.
>
> The enlightened view is very different. They recognize
> shit as shit, and realize there is a sublime pleasure
> apart from sense pleasures that can come only from
> abandoning these pursuits that worldlings consider
> indispensable and unavoidable.
>
> -fk
>
>
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