Hi Piya,
--- Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:

> Perhaps a close
> reflective reading of
> section 8 might help. [of m139]

I reread that section, both in your translation in
B.Bodhi's, and I still have the same interpretation.
The Buddha in many suttas calls out the name of the
disciple when praising wholesome qualities. Stricly
speaking, the Buddha contradicts his own advice in
M139. Other examples from other suttas: when the
Buddha points out wrong views in his disciples by
calling them "misguided fools".

What I conclude from this is that the Buddha could
still use derogatory or complimentary phrases that
appears "personal", but only the speaker would know
whether they utter statements like that free of any
ego-grasping. My guess is that in M139, the Buddha is
probably cautioning his disciples to be prudent about
pointing out wrong religious views for example to
others who cling very dearly to them, rather than a
directive to carry out that instruction in every minor
situation, for example in the company of those noble
disciples who would not wrongly grasp on to
misperceptions of conventional language.

> "turd-like" [describing sense-pleasures] brings out

the Pali sense more clearly

> here [than b.bodhi's translation "vile"]

It's wonderful that the Buddha [when talking to
disples who can handle the full truth] didn't pull any
punches. "Filthy" tones it down too much. A muddy
automobile is filthy. A dusty window is filthy. Sense
pleasures are a shit-sandwich.

For those of you in polite society, I should explain
the nuance of this expression. A prime example of this
occurs when for example, a boss passes down a very
unsavory task to his staff, all of whom must perform
the task rather than assign just one person to do the
entire job. One of wiser senior members might utter
the statement, "[The task] is a shit-sandwich, and
everyone has to take a bite." Meaning it is
unavoidable fate for everyone to partake in eating
that dungheap.

When applied to the context of sensual pleasures, it's
a brilliant metaphor. The worldly view on the matter
is that the only way to true happiness is to titillate
the 5 cords of sense pleasure. Conventional wisdom
holds that it is impossible to find happiness without
taking a bite out of that sandwich and taking the
negative side effects as a necessary consequence.

The enlightened view is very different. They recognize
shit as shit, and realize there is a sublime pleasure
apart from sense pleasures that can come only from
abandoning these pursuits that worldlings consider
indispensable and unavoidable.

-fk


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