Hello Frank and All,

Frank, I thought I recognised your 'forthright' style. :-)
With regard to point (2) of your post:
I wonder if language in the Buddha's time had a few local variants
e.g. a usage acceptable to the majority of people of all age groups
and levels in society, as well as one for the 'upper' and educated
classes, and a more impermanent type of language (such as one sees
every couple of years with high school age people) identifying one as
rebelling against authority, or having particular interests such as
surfing, styles of music and dancing, or the political 'cause' of the
moment?
I can understand the Buddha wishing his teachings to be conveyed in a
language that would be understood by most people, but another
consideration would be that it is actually 'listened' to.
You mention "how the Buddha talks about using conventional language to
teach dhamma" But , by this, did he mean not using something like
Latin, which until recent years was the language of the Catholic
clergy though all but unintelligible to Everyman? Did this really
mean using language that the majority would consider vulgar? Would
most people be willing and able to 'hear' a message phrased in
language they wouldn't allow in their own home?
[Is it possible that your idea of 'conventional' could mean someone
else's 'slang' or 'unacceptable'].

metta,
Christine

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank Kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:
> In reference to Piya's translation of M139, some
> comments:
>
> 1) Doesn't the Buddha contradict his own teaching on
> nonconflict, non praising and non disparaging in
> teaching dhamma by explicitly calling out Subhuti at
> the end and praising him for being one who practices
> nonconflict? And at the beginning praises subhuti for
> being the foremost among his disciples among
> nonconflict? Rather high praise wouldn't you say?
> Imagine the other disciples who become jealous and
> resentful of Subhuti because of that praise :-)
>
> 2) I like how Piya uses the translation "dung-like"
> for the description of sensual pleasures. Bhikhu Bodhi
> uses "filty". What is the pali phrase in question
> here? Is it literally "dung-like"? In light of how the
> Buddha talks about using conventional language to
> teach dhamma, I wonder how he would express the same
> teaching today. "Dudes, sense pleasures are like a
> shit sandwich."
>
> 3) If by some gross misfortune, I am not enlightened
> by the time the next buddha appears in the world, I
> vow to be named, "the foremost in obnoxiousness among
> all of the buddha's disciples."
>
> -fk