dear Rob,
You have misunderstood buddhaghosa because you didn't read this sutta com.If he said sukavipasaka is a harder way to nibbana but samathayanika with jhana as a ship(sampan) to cross the sea will be easier,how can it be in the end of sasana everyone will try attain nibbana in the harder way since our parami will be poorer,we need even more jhana to be easier compare to those sariputta etc.It can sure that sukavipasaka mean arahant without iddhi ,devine eyes when we talk about end of sasana , they are emerge from first jhana,second jhana though not from formless.The word kilamati has no comment in the tika but maybe in anguttara old tika by dhammapala(missing)
Anyway i think at this moment sukavipasaka has two meanings in com but vipasanayanika are not the same with both of them because sudhavipasanayanika are momentary samadhi follow by upacara /jhana in dhammapala com (citta and dhamma)while sukavipasaka are upacara as mention in patisambhida com-as a kayasakkhi which prove that they are samathayanika too but just upacara.
I would say thess are all tentavive comclusions because books are missing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rjkjp1 <rjkjp1@...>" <rjkjp1@...>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:03:57 -0000
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Pali] Re: New Pali Tipitaka Project

> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Teng Kee" <ongtk@...> wrote:
> >
> > Look at mahasi and nyanuttara who even overlook buudhaghosa did not
> recommed sukkhavipassaka for everyone but reject it.(a fact that
> sujato did not know)
> >
> _____________
> Dear teng kee,
> I looked over the book by Nyanuttara many years back so can't
> remember details, I think I disagreed with some points. But I don't
> remember them claiming that sukkhavipassaka was for everyone: rather
> that at this time, late in the sasana, that those who attain will do
> so by sukkhavipassaka. We can see this indicated by some commentaries
> where they say that the arahants with 4 discrimnations will be
> present for a shorter period (a thousand years according to some)
> than the sukkhavipassaka arahants.
>
> ___________
> "Mahasi said so many time sukkavipasaka is an easier way
> for everyone.We are overlooking the fact if we didn't check the books"
> _________
> It wasn't exactly hard for those like Bahiya or Sariputta - if we
> look at their last life only- who were not sukkhavipassaka . But
> considering their countless past lives perfecting the parami needed
> to be such great ones...
> I think it is harder to become 'released both ways' than
> sukkhavipassaka in the sense that it takes more parami developed over
> more lifetimes to become released both ways.
> RobertK
>
>
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