At 07:20 PM 17-10-02, Ong Teng Kee wrote:

>you can read in Taiping buddhist society daily from 8.oo pm to 10.00

Thank you for the information.

>pm.sakayanirutiya is about which language should be used to teach buddha
>teaching-your own language or sanskrit.I think you should know where it is.

I see now. You must be referring to sakaaya niruttiyaa. If this could be found among the Chinese scriptures, then we can be sure that there are at least fragments of equivalence to the Maha- and Cuu.lavagga of the Pali Vinaya Pi.taka.

Incidentally, this matter came up in our class earlier. Perhaps the story may interest the members here.

Two bhikkhus of brahman birth approached the Buddha and said that all sorts of monks were ruining the Buddha's words "sakaaya niruttiyaa". They then offered to render the Buddha's words in metrical verse. The Buddha rebuked for them for saying that and rejected it. He further imposed a dukka.ta for whoever or renders it so, and gave formal allowance "to master" (pariyaapu.nitu.m) Buddha's words "sakaaya niruttiyaa".

Now here's the controversy:
As you can see I left "sakaaya niruttiyaa" untranslated. Literally, it means "with own language/dialect". Modern translators translates it as "with *one's* own language/dialect", rendering the passage to mean that the monks were ruining the Buddha's words with *one's* own language, and the Buddha allowed monks to master the Buddha's words with *one's* own language.

However, my teacher, basing on the commentarial gloss, says that it means "with *their* own language/dialect", rendering the passage to mean that the monks were ruining the Buddha's words with *their* own language, and the Buddha allowed monks to master the Buddha's words with *their* own language, which the commentary gloss as Magadhi, which is believed to be what we now call Pali.

Can anyone throw more light to this?

peace

Ven Kumâra