Joining the thread late, but I have a couple of
thoughts to add...

--- samathasavaka <samathasavaka@...> wrote:

>> < snip... >>> moderator

:-) First of all, I'd like to thank the moderator for
keeping the discussion focused and free of unnecessary
stuff.

Senor Savaka does have legitimate and understandable
doubts about the nature of
nibanna/unconditioned/anatta. For most people, the
intuitive feeling we have is that there is something
subtle, a soul or agent that is behind our actions and
self-perception. Even a non-returner still has a very
subtle notion of "I am".

1) The Surangama sutra is a Mahayana sutra, and it
exmplifies why many (former) Mahayanists turn to the
the Pali suttas. The Surangama sutra is confounding,
to say the least. It repeatedly implies there is an
essence/consciousness/buddha-nature behind experience
that is eternal, unchanging, pure. How can a Buddhist
reconcile that with anicca, anatta with respect to 5
aggregates? I can understand how a subtle soul-theory
can be interpreted from some flavors of Mahayana
teaching. But this is a Pali-list...

2) There is a sutta in Majjhima Nikaya where a monk
asks the Buddha the same question as Senor Savaka.
I.e., "I see that there is no soul in the 5 aggregates
and 6 sense fields, but what about a soul OUTSIDE of
that?" Numerous pali suttas explain that the 5
aggregates and 6 sense fields contains our entire
world and totality of our experience. There is no
wiggle room for a soul outside of that in the Buddha's
dispensation. The Pali suttas are quite clear on this.
If your intuition does not agree with the Buddha's
teaching, so be it, but it does no good to try to
twist the pali suttas to suit your fancy.

-fk




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