Dear Dimitry,
Over 2 months ago you sent me a very thoughtful and
helpful reply to the translations I had posted to this
list of the exercises from chapters 3 and 4 in the
Gair Pali Reader. I have finally gotten around to
putting hands to keyboard to respond to your
suggestions.

Most of your ideas for improving my translation
attempt, I thought were improvements and changed my
version; some, I thought were fine alternatives, but
let my version stand; and just one or two I disagreed
with.

Your original email is below with my comments
interspersed. Where I haven�t commented on one of
your suggestions means that I felt it belonged to the
middle category � either interpretation seeming quite
valid.

>>Lesson 3, Section 1:
>>1.
>>- In the second question there is no 'satta', so the

translation may

>>be: If nobody transmigrates ... - OK

>>- 'pa.tisandahati' - 'reincarnates'?

>>- 'opamma' is not exactly an 'example' - maybe

'comparison', 'analogy',

>>'parralel' or 'metaphor'?

Agreed � �simile� is a good translation too.

>>- 'puriso' is skipped;

�kocadeva puriso� can be translated by �someone� or
�some person�.

>>2.
>>- 'ta.m' refers to the asked question, literally

'this' in 'how do you

>>consider this', and not 'so'.

See my next comment.

>>- 'ma~n~nati' is rather 'considers', 'deems', not an

intellectual

>>'thinks';

�ta.m ki.m mannasi� is literally �How do you consider
this�, but in more fluent English would be �So what do
you think?�.

>>- 'du.t.tho' - rather 'malicious', 'vicious'? - OK

>>- 'vi~n~nuugarahitaa' - 'disapproved by the wise';
>>3.
>>- 'akusala.m' - 'unskillfulness', 'unskillful

qualities';

>>- 'kusala.m' - 'skillfulness', 'skillful qualities';
>>
>>Lesson 3, Section 2:
>>1.
>>- 'adu.t.tho' - 'non-vicious' or 'amiable'; - OK

>>- 'vijjaa' - 'craft', 'education';
>>- 'vijjaagato' - 'educated';

>>- 'samattaa samaadinnaa' - 'brought to perfection

and undertaken';
Yes � better than my original choice.

>>2.
>>- 'Naaha.m samanupassaami...' - 'I don't see...';

>>- 'pi' refers rather to 'ekadhamma', so it's better

to drop 'indeed'

>>in English;

Good.

>>- 'eva.m abhaavita.m akammaniya.m hoti' - 'is so

unworkable when

>>undeveloped';

Thank you! � I completely missed the mark on my
original.

>>- 'adhivaaha' - 'bringing'; -- OK

>>3.
>>- 'association with unpleasant is suffering,

separation from pleasant

>> is suffering, not getting what one desires is

suffering';

>>4.
>>- 'lakkha.na' - 'nature';

�characteristic� or �distinguishing mark� are common
translations of �lakkha.na� too.

>>- 'could see a person coming from the east, could

see a person coming

>>from the south, could see a person coming from the

west, and could see

>>a person coming from the north';
>>- 'discriminate with consciousness an idea he

discriminates

>>with the intellect'; - OK

>>- 'Kallo'si' - 'Clever you are'; - OK

>>
>>Lesson 4, Section 1:
>>1.
>>- 'there are four defilements of Brahmins and

ascetics'. Your

>>translation 'Brahmin recluses' is also very

interesting, can you

>>please substantiate it, maybe I'm mistaken?

No, I�m mistaken not you. Compound words can be many
things, sometimes adjectival, sometimes joined as
�and�, among others. I just made an interpretation
that was wrong. Having read more of the canon, it�s
now clear to me that �and� is meant here.

>>- 'na bhaasanti na virocanti' - 'don't glitter,

sparkle, glare, gleam,

>>beam, radiate', English is so rich; - It certainly

is!

>>- 'that drink wine and liquor, and don't abstain

from drinking'; - OK

>>- 'ignorantly appropriate gold and silver'; - OK

>>2.
>>- 'sukha.m' - 'happiness, ease, well-being'; - OK

>>3.
>>- 'kalyaa.na' - 'virtuous'; - OK

>>- 'Lazy man chants much the scriptures, but does not

implement them'; - OK

>>- 'Pleasure gives birth to sorrow, pleasure gives

birth to fear;

>>For one who is freed from pleasure, there is no

sorrow, whence is

>>fear?'
>>
>>Lesson 4, Section 2:
>>1.
>>- 'Here, monks, in such an assembly monks are

agitated, arrogant,

>>fickle, garrulous, loose-talking � unmindful,

uncollected, with

>>wandering minds, and unbridled (unrestrained)

faculties.' - OK

>>- 'they are illustrious with unrighteous actions,

and not with

>>righteous actions'; - OK

>>2.
>>- Having completely understood this, the wise

diligently

>>Rejoice in diligence, delighting in the sphere of

the nobles. - OK

>>- For irrigators direct water, fletchers fashion

arrows,

>>Carpenters shape wood, and the wise tame themselves.

>>- Just as a solid rock, which is not blown off by

the wind,

>>The wise are not moved by blame or praise. - OK

>>- Just as a deep and clear lake, which is not

stirred up,

>>The wise, having heard the teachings, are serene. -

OK

>>3.
>>- 'pabbajita' - 'one who has gone forth',

'wanderer'; - OK

>>- 'saamisa.m sukha.m' - 'happiness of the flesh';
>>- 'niramisa.m sukha.m' - 'happiness not of the

flesh';
OK � also �material happiness� and �spiritual
happiness�

>>4.
>>- 'appa.tivattiya.m' - 'irreversible'; - OK

>>- 'araha.m' - 'Worthy'; - OK

>>- 'sama.na' - 'ascetic'. � OK

Thanks again for your help.
I will be posting shortly my answers to chapter 5, so
I will look forward to responses from you and others.

Metta,
John

--- "������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)"
<sangha@...> wrote:

> Dear John,
>
> Thank you for your good work. I have finished the
> translation and am
> correcting errors and making a dictionary, so your
> help is very
> timely.
>
> Soon I will place on my site a new version of
> translated textbook in
> .....

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