Hi Robert:

Thanks so much for your response. I look forward to any additional analysis.

Lee

On 5/12/2002 4:56 PM, Robert Eddison wrote:
> Lee Dillion:
>
> >"The Soul is everlasting (attanam niccam)." -- AN 5.24
>
> David has already identified the other snippets. At AN 5.24 there is no
> mention of either attaa or of nicca. Nor is the expression anywhere else on
> the Sixth Council Tipitaka CD. Actually it isn't even grammatical. The form
> attaa is used for the subject of a sentence. Attaana.m is the accusative
> form of attaa, used for the direct object, though in practice usually the
> functional equivalent of a reflexive pronoun.
>
> E.g.
>
> Purisassa hi jaatassa
> ku.thaarii jaayate mukhe,
> yaaya chindati *attaana.m*
> baalo dubbhaasita.m bha.na.m
>
> Surely in the mouth of a man, when born, an axe is born, with which a fool
> cuts *himself*, saying a badly-spoken (utterance).
> (Sn 657. KR Norman trans.)
>
> "The soul is everlasting" would be something like "attaa nicco"; perhaps
> "jiivo nicco" if the speaker is a Jain.
>
> Such a phrase is in fact found in the Suttas, but only in descriptions of
> wrong view and the manner of its arising, e.g. in the Brahmajaala and
> Sabbaasava Suttas.
>
> E.g.
>
> 'Yo me aya.m attaa vado vedeyyo tatra tatra kalyaa.napaapakaana.m
> kammaana.m vipaaka.m pa.tisa.mvedeti; so kho pana me aya.m *attaa nicco*
> dhuvo sassato avipari.naamadhammo, sassatisama.m tatheva .thassatii' ti.
> Ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, di.t.thigata.m di.t.thigahana.m
> di.t.thikantaara.m di.t.thivisuuka.m di.t.thivipphandita.m
> di.t.thisa.myojana.m.
> (M i 8)
>
> 'It is this self of mine that speaks and feels and experiences here and
> there the result of good and bad actions; but this *self of mine is
> permanent*, everlasting, not subject to change, and it will endure as long
> as eternity.' This speculative view, bhikkhus, is called the thicket of
> views, the wilderness of views, the contortion of views, the vacillation of
> views, the fetter of views.
> (Nyanamoli/Bodhi trans. p 92-3)
>
> I don't have time to examine the other passages today, but will return to
> them at the earliest opportunity.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
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--
Lee Dillion