Hi all.
Vinaya have some rules about delibarate lie. May be "a lie for the sake of
reputation, fame, and honor" is implied something like Parajika 4:
4. Should any bhikkhu, without direct knowledge, boast of a superior human
state, a truly noble knowledge and vision as present in himself, saying,
"Thus do I know; thus do I see," such that regardless of whether or not he
is cross-examined on a later occasion, he -- being remorseful and desirous
of purification -- might say, "Friends, not knowing, I said I know; not
seeing, I said I see -- vainly, falsely, idly," unless it was from
over-estimation, he also is defeated and no longer in communion.(tr. by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu)
Best regards
Aleksey.

----- Original Message -----
From: frank kuan <fcckuan@...>
To: <dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:05 AM
Subject: [Pali] Re: [DhammaStudyGroup] SN: puzzling suttas about monks lying


> (from dhammastudygroup@ list)
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> --- "m. nease" <mlnease@...> wrote:
> > Sorry I can't provide the specific lies mentioned in
> > this sutta, but monks performing various kinds of
> > wrong speech and many other shenanigans seems to
> > have
> > been fairly commonplace in the Buddha's time (as in
> > the present time), and often for exactly the reasons
> you cited from the commentary.
>
>
> It's not that monks of the past, present, and future
> commit wrong speech and performed other shenanigans
> that puzzled me. Naturally when the order of monks and
> nuns grows to a large number, they can't all be
> Sariputtas and Mogallanas. Sooner or later Curly,
> Larry, and Moe get ordained, and then you get a long
> list of rules in vinaya.
>
> What really caught my attention was that the sutta
> said that the monks who were so virtuous that they
> would not tell a lie to save their mother's life! They
> commited some kind of lie for the sake of reputation
> and honor. To resolve these two dissonant statements,
> I have to conclude that the virtuous monk must be
> doing some very subtle kind of lying, because they
> obviously wouldn't tell a blatant lie. That's why I'm
> so interested to find out exactly what the lie is.
>
> -fk
>
> --- frank kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote:
> > There's a section of suttas (repetitive with minor
> > variations) in Samyutta that goes something like
> > this:
> >
> > Buddha: With my ability to emcompass the minds of
> > others with my own mind (i.e. mind reading), I
> > noticed
> > that one of you virtuous monks in this assembly who
> > would not tell a deliberate lie for a silver bowl
> > filled with gold, or tell a lie to save the life of
> > your own mother, has told a lie for the sake of
> > reputation, fame, and honor.
> >
> > -=======================
> > Does anyone know SPECIFICS? Like exactly what the
> > lie
> > is? From the commentary notes, it looks like the
> > motivation would be to have fame among lay
> > supporters
> > so they could be invited more often and for better
> > quality of food, robes, offered.
> >
> >
>
>
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