Dear Ven. Kumara & fellow Palists,
Hope everything is well with you Ven. Kumara in your new monastery!
I'd like to add another passage to that that Win has sent as it's even
more explicit in the argument about sanna and vinnana.
2. S±vatthinid±na½. Atha kho aññatar± devat± abhikkant±ya
rattiy± abhikkantavaºº± kevalakappa½ jetavana½ obh±setv±
yena bhagav± tenupasaªkami; upasaªkamitv± bhagavanta½ abhiv±detv±
ekamanta½ aµµh±si. Ekamanta½ µhit± kho s± devat±
bhagavanta½ etadavoca
J±n±si no tva½, m±risa, satt±na½ nimokkha½ pamokkha½ vivekanti?
J±n±mi khv±ha½, ±vuso, satt±na½ nimokkha½ pamokkha½ vivekanti.
Yath± katha½ pana tva½, m±risa, j±n±si satt±na½ nimokkha½ pamokkha½
vivekanti?
Nand²bhavaparikkhay± 02, saññ±viññ±ºasaªkhay±, vedan±na½ nirodh±
upasam± eva½ khv±ha½, ±vuso, j±n±mi satt±na½
nimokkha½ pamokkha½ vivekanti.
Please use the Roman Pali font from CSCD.
It comes from the very beginning of Samyutta. It doesnt mention
parinibbuto. For sanna and vinnana it uses khaya and for vedana it uses
nirodha and upasami. In other others, destruction of perception and
consciousness and cessation and appeasement of feelings.
Hope it can help to the discussion!
metta to all
Rick
"Ven. KUMARA Bhikkhu" wrote:
>
> Wynn,
>
> Based on my primary level knowledge of Pali, the quoted text (1.)
> doesn't
> seem to say that "Arahants do not have feeling/sensation". The word
> "parinibbuto" tells us that the monk "has died without being born".
> Would
> appreciate someone correcting me if that's not correct.
>
> As my understanding goes, an arahant still have feelings, both mental
> and
> physical. In fact, so long as he lives, all the five aggregates still
> stay
> with him (so to speak). However, he has abandoned them, that is to
> mean he
> no longer clings to them. As such, having died devoid of tan.haa, he
> does
> not come to being again.
>
> peace
>
> Kumaara Bhikkhu
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: wynn <wewynal@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 30 August, 2001 12:06 AM
> Subject: [Pali] No feeling?
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can you explain this to me?
> > Does it means that Arahants do not have feeling/sensation?
> > Can Pali experts share some light on this if you have come across
> this
> passage before?
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Regarding the experience of the arahant, the Suttanipata states that
> by
> the destruction of all feelings/sensations a monk lives desireless and
> at
> peace. [1] Once Sariputta was asked what happiness there can be when
> there
> is no feeling/sensation.[2] He explained that the absence of
> feeling/sensation itself is happiness. [3]
> >
> > 1. Vedananam khaya bhikkhu nicchato parinibbuto: Sn 739
> > 2. Kim pan'ettha n'atthi vedayitan ti: A IV 415
> > 3. Etad eva khv'ettha sukham yad ettha n'atthi vedayitam
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Wynn