From: Richard Wordingham
Message: 730
Date: 2003-06-24
>shows
>
> Richard Wordingham wrote:
>
> > -
> >
> > One of the advantages of the Austronesian languages for studying
> > sound changes is that it is such a large group. A change t > k
> > up in comparison with other languages, and if you had, say c~t~kbut I
> > collapsing to t~k~k, it should show up by comparison with a large
> > number of unaffected languages. (I know, I ought to write t~k,
> > let you call your bags - or were they sequences? - sets.)and
> >
> > What are your accepted p>k>t and p>t>k examples?
>
>
> The famous ones which occur accross Semitic, Turkic and IE are tVr,
> kVr having toin
> do with "rotation, turning, etc". And there is also evidence of it
> form pVr. I cannot tellThat's more like a single word. What examples do you have as a
> if it was p>t>k or p>k>t.
> > > > > Turkic which stretches from the Pacific to the Adriatic.time
> >
> > > > Reaching the Adriatic is fairly recent.
> >
> > > Large numbers of them must have existed for a long period of
> > > in order to have spreadquite a
> > > out and not disappeared. Supernova-ing is a rare event. In any
> > case
> > > they were in the Asian region for a long time.
> >
> > The impact of 'supernovas' is quite wide, and there have been
> > few in historical times:southwest
> >
> > Big ones, in historical order:
> > Latin, Arabic, Spanish, English
>
> Latin spread over IE areas in Europe. And it only "converted"
> Europe.It mopped up non-IE pockets in Tuscany, Spain and France.
> Arabicwhich
> spread over areas where related languages were spoken. In areas in
> it was notCuster was outgunned! However, I think technological advantage may
> true, it fizzled out (Iran, Anatolia, Spain).
> Spanish had a huge
> advantage e.g. firearms and
> modern technology over a stone age population. Ditto for English.
>which there
> >
> >
> > Moderate ones:
> > Aramaic, Turkish, Russian
>
> Turkic was probably also like Arabic and spread over an area in
> were related languages. Only in Anatolia did it encounter specialIt made significant inroads into Fars as well.
> circumstances.
> In other areas it also mostly disappeared.
> Russian spread over Slavic?
> lands.
> > It's not surprising if people use this model for Afro-Asian, Indo-an
> > European (2 waves - agricultural and steppe, and should we count
> > Indian expansion as well?), Austro-Asiatic and a prehistoric Tairegions
> > expansion.
>
> Maybe different cities got bigger and took control over wider
> their languageswhich
> became lingua franca and was learned by others in the neighborhood
> enriched theexpected.
> syntax and morphology of the neighboring languages. Over time, they
> probably picked up
> complex syntax and morphologies and some irregularity would be
> IE modelexcept
> does not work for others. It probably does not work for IE either
> by ignoringI
> evidence to the contrary. I recently read a book on Semitic (which
> could not findsay the
> otherwise I would have given a reference) in which the author(s)
> same thing.I look forward to your coming across it and telling us more about it.
> I think there was something like Sanches, Badillo or something.