Re: Universal Roots (was: learning about Nostratic)

--- In Nostratica@yahoogroups.com, "Geraldine Reinhardt" <waluk@...>
wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Wordingham <richard.wordingham@...>
> To: Nostratica@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 4:08 PM
> Subject: [Nostratica] Re: learning about Nostratic
>
>
>
> > --- In
> Nostratica@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Gerry <waluk@...>"
> <waluk@...>
> > wrote:
> > > Strange that in some places
> > different languages are
> understood
> > by
> > > everyone while in other areas
> > different dialects can be
> > > unintelligable. Methinks
> this
> > language tree of ours needs a
> great
> > > pruning. Mebets that all
> world
> > dialects have word stems that
> they
> > > all share.
> > You won' collect. Suggest such
> a
> > root!
> > GR: For a root I shall select
> "man" or "father". How many
> languages can you display that
> share this root?
> >
> > Gerry
> I propose Classical Greek as a
> language that lacks the 'man' root.
> I propose Biblical Hebrew as a
> language that lacks the 'father'
> root. Welsh is a possibility, but
> it may be present as a learned loan
> from Latin.
> They're a good choice - Latin and
> Sanskrit have spread them far and
> wide!
> Richard.
> P.S. Ignore the text below.
> Hi Richard,
> I deleted the text below.
> Classical Greek must have the root 'father'

Yes - pate:r 'father'.

> while I'll bet Biblican Hebrew uses 'man'.

I don't think it does. What word do you suggests comes from the
root 'man'.

> Mestillthinks that all world languges share word "senses" in common

(like father and man are similar).

I have far less problem with there being senses in common. 'Two' is
a fairly good concept, unless you get picky about the difference
between 'two' and 'a pair'. I think the same can be said for 'one',
despite indefinite articles and languages like Thai that
distinguish 'one' and 'one only'.

> Thus, are you claiming that other than the three above, all others

share common roots for 'man' or 'father'?

No, I was trying to keep to languages where there is a good chance of
reaching consensus. If I chose a Tai counter-example, it may be
difficult to agree that I have a counterexample. For example, is it
absolutely certain that Proto-Tai *ta 'maternal grandfather' is
unrelated to 'father'? (I'm confident it isn't related, but proof is
another matter.) Paul Manansala gives it as a father word in his
infamous list at http://www.geocities.com/pinatubo.geo/austric.htm .
(Incidentally, Thai itself fails to be a counterexample because it
has borrowed cognates of 'man' and 'father' from Sanskrit or Pali.)

The assertion, 'All world dialects have word stems that they all
share' is only true if there are two or more word stems used by *all*
dialects. That is rather a tall order.

Richard.