----- Özgün İleti -----
Kimden: Polat Kaya
Kime: ;
Gönderme tarihi: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:26 AM


Dear Akhilesh Pillalamarri,

I thank you for your kind and supportive comments. I appreciated them.
Your scholarly questions are valid ones and they need to be answered
with care.  That is why I have taken time in responding. Scholars like
yourself who show keen understanding in what I have written deserve my
attention. Hovever those who use put-down comments, simply because
what I say is contrary to their convictions will not get my attention.

1.  First of all, you say that: 

However, my objection is to the fact that the Turks actually appear
> near
Greece (in Antolia, where they replaced the Greek-speakers).
> around
1050-1100 A.D. while the Mycerian civilization was between
> 1400-1200

Polat Kaya:  Your statement "Turks actually appear near Greece (in
Antolia, where they replaced the Greek-speakers) around 1050-1100
A.D." actually represents only part of the picture and not all of the
picture of the ancient world.  In my paper when I pointed out that
that the so-called "GILGAMESH" epic was in fact named as "BILGAMESH"
originally, the Turkish Language was there.  The meaning of this is
that Turkish speaking people, whether under the name Tur, Turk,
Turukku, Sumer, Ki-en-gi or by any other Turkic name, were there and
were using their language in naming the oldest known epic story, i.e.,
"BILGAMESH" that was intentionally changed to GILGAMESH later.  Thus,
this ancient epic story's connection with the ancient Turks and
Turkish language was intentionally cut off.  The presence of a
language at a time and a place indicates the presence of those people
who spoke that language. The BILGAMESH epic was composed at least some
six thousand years ago. The earliest that Greeks can be located is
about the beginning of the second millennium B.C. Thus, the appearance
of Greeks in history is much more recent a phenomena  than the spread
of Tur/Turk peoples.

Encyclopaedia Britannica notes, although hesitatingly, that the
Turanians antedated the Aryans in Asia and Europe.  This is the fact
of the matter. Yet historians make no mention of this fact as if the
Turanians never existed. As I mentioned in my paper, the Sumerians,
Masarians, Minoans, Thracians, Trojans, Lidians, Phrygians, Pelasgian,
Hurrians, Mitannies, Kanaans Turukkus, Kassites, and many more were
Turkish speaking Tur peoples contrary to misinformation that have been
fed to readers at large. This is why GENESIS 11 says that the world
spoke one language. Thus, the first appearance of the Tur/Turk people
in the Middle East and Anatolia cannot be around 1050-1100 A.D. as is
misleadingly stated.

The Turkish movements from Central Asia that took place at around
1050-1100 AD is just the latest of many ancient movements of the
Turkish peoples into all directions of Asia, Europe, Middle East and
North Africa. Modern history tries to present the events of 1050 to
1100 AD as the earliest known traces of Turks, but this is done purely
for political reasons.  This does not mean that Tur/Turk peoples were
not in the Middle East before this event.

When we recognize the ancient world in this light, then we find that
those who created the so-called Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations at
1450 B.C. or earlier were in fact the Turkic speaking Tur/Turk
peoples. The so-called Trojan wars between the Greeks and the Trojans
are nothing but the ancient wars between Tur/Turk Trojans of Troy and
the Hellenes. The very fact that the name TROY contains the Turkish
words "TUR" and "ÖY" is an indication that Troy was the home of
Tur/Turks peoples.  The name TROY is an anagram of Turkish "TUR-ÖY"
meaning "Home of Tur" or "Tur home". The so-called "PELASGIANS" were
the native Tur/Turk people of the Aegean Sea area and Thracia before
the Greeks arrived at what is presently called "Greece", that is, the
ancient "Ay-Han-istan" (Yunanistan) of the so-called Ionians
(Ay-Hans).  The Lemnos Island inscription is written in Turkish and is
a verification of this fact.

Thus it must be realized that Turkish - Greek contact does not take
place at year 1050-1100 as we are all led to believe, but rather far
earlier. This suppresion of the ancient Tut/Turk civilization is done
because of the fact that this ancient Turanian civilization has been
usurped (looted).

Before the introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the ancient Tur/Turk
world was very widely spread all over the Middle East, North Africa
and Europe since very ancient times as the archaeological findings
indicate. With the introduction of Judeo-Christianity the ancient
Turanian religion and along with it the Turkish language were
diligently obliterated and all the ties of Tur/Turk peoples to their
ancient world was wiped away.  Modern history does not want to
remember this ancient Turkic world because Judeo-Christian religious
books were used as the source for ancient history. Judeo-Christianity
holybooks tell their believers that they should not believe anything
that happened before their time. They even reset the reference
starting point to Year 0  some two thousand years ago implying that
there was no history worth knowing before Judeo-Christianity.  The
believers are forced and/or induced to forget previous times
altogether.  And forget they did.  Those who schemed to bury that
ancient Turanian civilization in the first place will not help to
bring it back.

Just before this response to your letter, I put out a paper entitled
"The Riddle of DIOGENES" in the internet forum called
historical_linguistics. You could read it, if you wish, at this
It would answer some of your questions. 

The earlier Tur/Turk world of Anatolia was wiped away particularly
after the military conquests of Alexander the Great and by the Greek
states that were established in Anatolia and the Middle East and
finally by the so-called Byzantium Empire.

After the introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the ancient Turanian
religious civilization and the Turkish language were subjected to
extensive hostile activities.  The world-wide Turanian religion was
termed as "paganism" or "idol worshipping", animism, shamanism, etc.
yet the new religions took all their tenets from this ancient
religion. In the process, the ancient Turkish world has been subjected
to all kinds of division, extinction, forceful removal and
assimilation. Present day Turks have been alienated from their very
ancient roots almost completely.  As I explained in my previous
papers, when the Turkic world was around almost everywhere, with their
universal Sun-God, Moon-Good, and Sky-Father-God trinity religion,
neither the Greeks nor the so-called "Indo-Europeans" were around.

Anatolia before Alexander the Great was full of Turkish speaking
Tur/Turk peoples.  After the invasion of Anatolia and the rest of the
Middle East by Alexander the Great, a wholesale Hellenization and
obliteration of the ancient Turkish world took place.  After the
introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the obliteration of this ancient
Turanian world was completed until the new waves of Turks  (1050 -
1100 AD) started coming  again.

Even the so-called term "Mediterranean Sea" is very much an anagram of
Turkic "MEDE TURANIAN SU" (METE TURANIAN SU) meaning "The Sea of the
Mata/Mete Turanians" or "Sea of Turanian peoples". Mete is one Turkish
name of the ancient Turanian trinity Sky-God. Different versions of
this name were used by ancient kings and peoples as titles identifying
their affinity to the ancient Turanians and their religion.

2.  You asked:

> Please explain, though in
> understanding the first "Turks" were assimilated into Greek
> very early on; but there should be a trace of their journey
> central asia at least.

Polat Kaya: Movements of Tur/Turk peoples from Central Asia did not
occur at one time, but rather was spread over a very wide time span
since the ending of the last Ice Age in Europe.  Such movements
antedate many times over the so-called B.C. reference set about 2000
years ago. With respect to the trace of Turanian Turkish peoples,  I
will highlight a few but very important traces. First about the
ancient Greeks.

Referring to Thucydides's writings, Hendrik Willem van Loon writes the
following about the early Greeks: [1]

"Of these early hellenes we know nothing. Thucydides, the historian of
the fall of Athens, describing his earliest ancestors, said that they
"did not amount to very much," and this was probably true.  They were
very ill-mannered.  They lived like pigs and threw the bodies of their
enemies to the wild dogs who guarded their sheep.  They had very
little respect for other people's rights, and they killed the natives
of the Greek peninsula (who were called the Pelasgians) and stole
their farms and took their cattle and made their wives and daughters
slaves and wrote endless songs praising the courage of the clan of the
Achaeans, who had led the Hellenic advance-guard into the mountains of
Thessaly and the Peloponnesus.

But here and there, on the tops of high rock, they saw the castles of
the Aegeans and those they did not attack for they feared the metal
swords and the spears of the Aegean soldiers and knew that they could
not hope to defeat them with their clumsy stone axes.

For many centuries they continued to wander from valley to valley and
from mountain side to mountain side.  Then the whole land had been
occupied and the migration had come to an end.

That moment was the beginning of the Greek civilization.  The Greek
farmer, living within sight of the Aegean colonies, was finally driven
by curiosity to visit his haughty neighbors.  He discovered that he
could learn many useful things from the men who dwelt behind the high
stone walls of Mycenae and Tiryns.

He was a clever pupil.  Within a short time he mastered the art of
handling those strange iron weapons which the Aegeans had brought from
Babylon and from Thebes.  He came to understand the mysteries of
navigation.  He began to build little boats for his own use.

And when he learned everything the Aegeans could teach him he turned
upon his teachers and drove them back to their islands.  Soon
afterwards he ventured forth upon the sea and conquered all the cities
of the Aegean.  Finally in the fifteenth century before our era he
plundered and ravaged Cnossus and ten centuries after their first
appearance upon the scene the Hellenes were the undisputed rulers of
Greece, of the Aegean and of the coastal regiones of Asia Minor.
Troy, was destroyed in the eleventh century B. C.  European history
was to begin in all seriousness."

Similarly, the Encyclopaedia Britanniaca writes the following about
the Aegean Civilization: [2]

"Aegean civilization is a general term for the prehistoric Bronze Age
cultures of the area around the Aegean Sea  covering a period from c.
2500 B.C. or earlier until c. 1100 B.C.,when iron begins to come into
general use throughout  the area.  From the earliest times these
cultures fall into four main geographical groups:  (1) Crete, , (2)
Cycladic islands, (3) the mainland of Greece, including Thessaly, and
(4) the Troad (the land of Troy) in northwestern Asia Minor, together
with coasts of western Asia Minor, the great coastal islands (Lemnos,
Lesbos, Chios, Samos) and Macedonia.  The cultures of this fourth
group have many affinities with the early cultures of central and
southern Asia Minor and are really more allied to them than to the
other cultures of the Aegean area.  

TRACE 1: This citing tells us that Greeks were not the indigenous
people of so-called ancient "Greece". There were a native people whom
Greeks called "Pelasgian" and these peaple had the knowledge and the
capability of making "castles' at the top of high places which were
most difficult to reach.  These natives already had a highly developed
civilization, religion and language of their own.  However, they were
subjected to constant hostility of the incoming Greeks.  Boat building
was much earlier a navigation technique used by the natives. It was
not an invention of Greeks contrary to misinformation. They learned
the technique from the native Pelasgians, i.e., ancient Turkish
Ay-Hans and Gün-Hans of the area.   The name AEGEAN is a composite
word made up from the Turkish AY (moon) and GÜN (sun) words embedded
in it from Turkish AY-Han and GÜN-Han names similar to many other
Greek words that are made up from Turkish words and phrases. Thus
words and names belonging to the Turkish language are the first trace
indicating Turkish presence in ancient "Greece" or anywhere else.

TRACE 2.  "KURGANS":The "KURGAN" culture is Tur/Turk culture.  Burying
their dead in very elaborate underground chambers is an ancient
Turanian culture.  Archaeologists find "kurgans" all over Asia and
Europe including ancient Greece and Anatolia and Middle East.  Even
the ziggurats and pyramids are architectural structures of ancient

The KURGANS, also known as "tumulus", are truly ancient Turkish and
Turanian culture contrary to attributing these ancient artifacts to
all kinds of peoples. "KURGANs are found throughout Asia and Europe
and Anatolia. The word "KURGAN" is a pure Turkish word having the
meaning of "1. Fortification, castle, fortress. 2. Tomb, mound,
tumulus." The word is most likely from Turkish "KORUGAN" ("KORUYAN")
meaning "that which protects". Ancient "kurgans" were the perfectly
shaped conical "tombs" pointing to the "sky" and made to protect the
dead persons body and all the other artifacts that were put in his/her
chamber in order to help him/her in their after life.

"Kurgans" were another form of "tomb" like the famed "pyramids" of
ancient Masar (MISIR) dedicated to the sky-god by kings and rich
persons.  They looked like an earthen pyramit from a distance. They
are made with heaped stones and soil on the top of the chamber that
contained the body and belongings of the dead person. The name
"Kurgan" also hides away the name "KORGUN" meaning "FIERY SUN" which
is a Turkish expression describing the Sun-God. The contents of many
such ancient Turkic kurgans presently embellish many museums of the
world. Most Kurgans have been robbed for the riches that they
contained.  Many "kurgans' are found in Euroasia, see map given by
Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg.  [3]   Some of the most famed
"kurgans" belonged to Phyrgian and Lydian kings in Anatolia.  These
have nothing to do with the so-called "Indo-European" peoples contrary
to bogus claims by some European writers that they are

Many similar but small sized conical tombs are found in Eastern
Turkistan presently under China. The "pointiness" of many Tur/Turk
structures is an ancient Turanian culture that relates to the ancient
Turanian Sky-God.  Even the tops of ancient Turkish KUMBETS, another
tomb structure, are conical.  The tops of Turkish minarets are
conical. So these monuments are essentially dedicated to the Sky-God.
It must be noted that even the so-called English term "TOMB" is from
the Turkish word "TUM" meaning artificially made "heap of soil, hill,

Thus those thousands of kurgans that are distributed all over Asia,
Europe, Anatolia and other places are the traces that speak in
concrete terms of the movements of ancient Turanian Tur/Turk peoples.

TRACE 3.  "ISTAN" name: One of the ancient traces of Turkic peoples
are the toponyms given to land reference points where they lived.  The
word "TOPONYM" is said to be from Greek "topos" meaning "place plus
"onyma" meaning name.  This is rather misleading.  The so-called
"topos" is an anagram of Turkish word "tepe" meaning "hill" and
"onyma" is an anagram of Turkish word "NAMI" meaning "its name".
Thus, even the source of the term "TOPONYM" is from a Turkish
expression, i.e., "TEPE NAMU" meaning "the name of a hill" thus a
"place name".  Thus when we examine Greek words or names we find that
Turkish is embedded in them. In other words, so-called "Greek" words
are actually Turkish words or phrases that have been restructured to
camouflage their  Turkish source identity as I have shown with many

The fact that the country presently called "Greece" is also called
"YUNANISTAN" in Turkish indicates that this geographical area was an
"ISTAN" country in ancient times.  Greeks prefer to be called by the
name "Hellen" rather than "Yunan" which is an altered form of "Ay-Han
(Ion).  The name "YUNANISTAN" is not a name left over from the recent
Ottoman times. Its roots go way back to the times of ancient Ionians
who predated the Greeks. Thus the Turkish name "ISTAN" is at the heart
of the name "YUNANISTAN". This is also supported by other similar
names within the same geographical area, such as: "MACARISTAN" for the
present Hungary, "BULGARISTAN" for Bulgaria and even "LEHISTAN for

The ancient city of CONSTANTIANA in Souteast Romania is from the
ancient Turkish expression "KUNISTANTI HANA" meaning "GÜNISTAN home
(place)".  The Turkish word "HAN" while meaning "Lord" also means
"palace" or "place" or "house" in the form "HANA" (hane).  The word
"Hana" or "hane" has nothing to do with "Persian" although it is also
used in that language. The suffix "-A" at the end of "HANA" is the
suffix of feminization from the masculine name "HAN". Another name of
the city was "CONSTANTA" from Turkish "KUNISTANDI" meaning "it is

The River DNIEPER in present Ukraine was called "BORYSTHENES" in
ancient times. This name is an anagram of Turkish expression "BIR-O
ISTAN-SU" meaning "water of ONE-God" which refers to the ancient
Turanian SKY-FATHER-GOD.  It could also be an anagram of Turkish
expression "BÖRI-ISTAN-SU" (Gök-Böri-istan su", "Gök-Kurt-istan su"
veya "Bozkurt-istan su") meaning "The water of Gray-Wolf-God" or "Blue
Wolf-God".  It is interesting to note that even at present there is
the Turkish Bashkurtistan autonomous republic in Russia. These are all
traces of ancient Turkish presence.

Even the country name "ESTONIA" is a camouflaged form of Turkish

The famed LAKE of CONSTANCE in the ALP mountains between the frontier
of Germany, Austria and Switzerland, gets its name from Turkish
"KUNISTANCI".  Even the so-called Indo-European name "LAKE" (LAC in
French, LOCH in Scottish) is an anagram of Turkish "KÖL" (GÖL) meaning
"lake".  Turkish "KÖL" (GÖL) read backwards gives the names Lake, Lac
and Loch.

In the same area, the country name AUSTRIA is an anagram of Turkish
expression "OUS TUR ÖYI" (OGUZ TUR ÖYÜ) meaning "Home of Oguz

The name ALP, as the name of the famed ALP mountains, is from Turkish
"AL-aPa" meaning "red father" referring to the name of the ancient
Turanian "Sun-God".  The Turkish word "ALP" also has the meanings of:
hero; brave; difficult to overcome.  So are the Alp mountains.

>From all of this, it is
seen that the so-called "Eastern Europe" must
have been another ancient "TURKISTAN" where Turkish speaking
Tur/Turk peoples lived and named their land in Turkish until the
so-called "Indo-Europeans" came and altered that "ISTAN" picture of
ancient Europe. Evidently, Turkish "ISTAN" named countries were so
wide spread that Greeks, after establishing themselves in the area
presently called "Greece", initiated "ANTI-ISTAN" activities. I have
explained this in my paper on "The Riddle of DIOGENES".

Even the name "BYZANTIUM" is most likely usurped from the ancient
Thracian kingdom name "BISTONIUM" (from Turkish "BEYISTAN ÖYÜM"
meaning "my BEYISTAN home" where Turkish "BEY" means "LORD").
Evidently, ancient Greeks depended very heavily on the technique of
changing and owning Turkish words, expressions and names.  This must
have been a way of life for the ancient pre- Byzantine Greeks and
Byzantine Greeks. The name "BYZANTIUM" is very much a replacement of
an abolished ancient Turkish name, as many other Greek names and words

When the name "BYZANTIUM" is decrypted letter-by-letter as "BIYZTANUM"
and read as in Turkish,  we find that it is nothing but the
anagrammatized Turkish expression "BEYISTANUM" meaning "I am the
Lord-God"; secondly, it is from the Turkish expression "BEYISTAN ÖYUM"
meaning "My country is Beyistan" where the name "BEYISTAN" is a proper
name just as the name "TURKISTAN" is. A third alternative meaning
embedded in the name "BYZANTIUM" when decrypted as "BYZ-ANT-IUM" and
read as in Turkish, is the Turkish expression "BEYAZ HANTI ÖYÜM"
(AKSARAYTI ÖYÜM) meaning " White-House is my Home". All of these very
exalting meanings, expressed all in one word, are possible only with
Turkish. I should also note that presently many modern Christian
countries use this Turkish expression for their "palaces" as "White
House" or "Casa Bianca" or "Casa Blanca" meaning "white house". These
are not arbitrary choices but rather from an ancient Turkish source. 

The ancient City of ISTANBUL also has a quarter in the heart of the
city called "AKSARAY" meaning "white palace".  All these are not
coincidences. As it is seen, even the name ISTANBUL comes from the
Turkish ISTAN as I explained in my recent paper "The Riddle of

It is no wonder that some famed Europeans have said the following
about Turkish:

Max Mulller: "Turkish is the result of the creative power of the
Turkish langugae. It is the product of human intellect's awesome
might. There is no other language which can be understood as easily,
or enjoyed as much as Turkish."

Paul Roux: "Turkish is a mathematical language full of thought and intellect."

Moliere: "Turkish is language to be admired; you can express a great
deal by a few words."

'These famed people must have known Turkish rather intimately.

Of course the most interesting of all is the name of the king
CONSTANTINE I the Great who named an ancient town of Thracian Turks on
the Bosphorus with the name "CONSTANTINOPOLE" supposedly after his
"Greek" name. 

The name CONSTANTINE is anagrammatized from a SUN (GUNES) based
Turkish expression. This Roman king, like all other Roman kings, was
initially a "pagan" king meaning that he was the believer of the
ancient Tur/Turk peoples Sky-God religion. Hence his title was in
accordance with the Turanian traditions of titling kings after the Sun
in Turkish. He became a Christian later.

1.  In one meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted
letter-by-letter as "CON-STAN-TI-EN", it is an anagram of Turkish
expression "KUN-ISTAN-Ti hAN"  ("Gün-Istan-di Han") meaning "The Lord
was Sun-God" which ennobles him to the level of Sun-God. Thus the
title deifies the king in Turkish in accordance with the ancient
Turkish tradition.

As is seen in this anagram, the "CON" part of the title pronounced as
"KON" is Turkish "KÜN" (GÜN) meaning "sun", "STAN" is Turkish "ISTAN"
meaning "God", "TI" is the Turkish verbal suffix "TI/DI" of verb "to
be", and "EN" is the anagram of Turkish "HAN" meaning "lord". 

2. In another meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted
as "CON-ISTAN-T-EN", is from Turkish expression  "KÜN-ISTAN aTa-hAN"
("Gün-Istan Ata-Han") meaning "Lord Father is Sun-God". Thus king
Constatntine again deifies himself in accordance with ancient Turkic traditions.

3. In another meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted
as "CONSTANT-EN" and read as in Turkish, is from Turkish expression
"KONaSTANTi HAN" (GÜNESTENDI HAN) meaning "The Lord is from Sun" or
"Lord is a follower of the Sun". This again identifies the so-called
"pagan" identity of this ancient Greek king who chose to hide his real
Turkish title in a camouflaged  manner.  In other words he usurped his
title from Turkish as did so many others.

Additionally, from all this, it becomes evident that the ancient
Turkic name "ISTAN" was obliterated from Europe as presently Turkic
name "BALKAN" is being slowly obliterated form the Eastern European geography.

Many other kings, popes and unofficial personalities have taken this
exalting Turkish name in a disguised form (i.e., Constantine).  Yet
none of these names are Greek as claimed but rather are anagrammatized
from Turkish into Greek by way of hellenization.

The city name CONSTANTINOPOLE, when decrypted as "CONISTANTI N OP OEL"
is actually an anagram of the Turkish expression "KONISTANTI HAN APA
AUL" meaning "Lord Father village is KUNISTAN". This revelation should
clear up all confusion associated with the names ISTANBUL and CONSTANTINOPOLE.

We are given the impression that the ancient Greeks founded the city
of Constantinopolis.  This is not the case.  All the Greek colonizers
did was open up a trading station near an ancient Thracian town on the
Bosphorus.  This trading station that they opened up there was used as
an excuse to take over the land as was the case in other "trading
stations".  The point I am trying to make here is that the city was
already founded by the earlier Thracians. The name of this ancient
city was changed to the present Turkish name of ISTANBUL after it was
taken in 1453 by the Great Ottoman Sultan Fatih Mehmet HAN.

Even the name ISTANBUL is a composite Turkish expression standing for
"ISTAN-ABA AUL" meaning "God-Father Village".  The word AUL is the
ancient Turkish word meaning "village".  Presently on the Bosphorus
there is an area called "ISTINYE" which is very much the remnant of
the ancient name "ISTAN OYÜ" meaning "Home of God".  Also on the
Bosphorus is the place called "TARABIYA" which is very much the
remnant of ancient Turkish "TUR ABA OY" meaning "TUR FATHER HOME".

TRACE 4. TOMBSTONES ("Mezar Taslari").  Strewn all over Central Asia
are the single stone "tombstones' erected for the dead.  They are
unique in the sense that they are slender, tall, four sided stones
where normally the top is cut diagonally leaving a pointed tip at the
top.  [4]  Pointed structures is very much the tradition of ancient
Turanians because its religous meaning was that all things to point to
"Sky-God".  For that reason alone, even ancient Turanian head-dresses
were pointed ones which comes to present times in Turkish ISTAN
countries. These ancient tombstones are generally embellished with an
"EYE" symbol, that is. Either two concentric circles with a dot at the
centre or "a circle with a dot at the centre," placed at the top of
the stone, and additionally with writings and/or animal pictures on
them.  The "EYE" symbol is not only a symbol indicating the SUN and
MOON disks but is also the symbol of the ancient Sky-Father-God "OGUZ"
which has many meanings one of which is Turkish "O-GÖZ" meaning "that

Quiet often these tombstones have inscriptions written on them
describing the identities of the persons that lie in their eternal
sleep below the stone. Many detailed descriptions of such tombstones
are given by Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari"  [5] Türk Dil
Kurumu Yayinlari, Ankara, 1987,

Tomb stones similar to the tomb stones of Central Asia are strewn all
over Europe all the way to Ireland and Scotland at the west, to
Scandinavian countries in the north, to Western France and Germeny in
the west and Central Europe.

For example, the village of CARNAC of northwest France  [6], in the
department of Morbihan and the territory of Lorient (arrondissement of
Lorient), 14 km. S.W. of Auray, and nearby Menec menhir system, and
another one at a place called Kermario are aligned in rows of such
standing stones or alternatively "menhirs" dated some 3000 B.C. The
pictures from these "standing stone" sites are very illuminating.
Around the village of Carnac in Brittany stand long rows of menhirs,
more than 3000 in all, in 11 rows streching as long as two miles. [7]

Mustafa Gökmen, in describing the Turkish inscriptions on Turkish
Tonyukuk monument in Mongolia, states that from the tomb-complex
towards east a long chain of "balbals" extend over the hills facing
the monument. [8]  Thus we find the long chain of stones in rows in
central Asian Turkish monuments also.

The name "menhir" is etymologized as  being "men" meaning "stone" and
"hir" meaning "tall"  [9] which seems to be total misinformation. The
French dictionary does not have any of these root words.  It is my
view that "MENHIR" is from Turkish expression "MEN ER" meaning "I am
hero" (I am soldier).  Since each one of these stones represent a
fallen person, the Turkic etymology is far more appropiate for the
described concept.  After all these stones are "tombstones" and are
not named after their tallness. The MENEC stones are in rows of
thousands of stones as if they were "soldiers" in lines ready for some

We find similar tombstones all the way in western SCOTLAND. Iain
Zaczek and David Lyons, in their book, provide excellent pictures of
such tombstones (menhirs) in Scotland.  [10] They are shown to be very
much the same structures as the ones found in Central Asia.  We also
find them in Ireland. [11]

Thus the Eurpean "menhir' stones are very much the traces of ancient
Tur/Turk peoples in Western Europe.

TRACE 5.  Separation of words in writing systems.  In many ancient
Turanian writings words are separated from each other with dots,
generally two dots, i.e., a colon (:), and some times with one, three
or four dots.  Thus, any confusion that might arise due to mixing
words in a line with each other is avoided. This is a characteristic
of ancient Turkic writing system. The Gök Türk inscriptions in Central
Asia, runic inscriptions on stones found all over Europe, Pelasgian
inscriptions, Etruscan inscriptions, and Phrygian inscriptions use the
same dot delimiter for word separation.  Ancient writings found on
rock faces from Wadi Djerat, Tassial in Libian Sahara desert show this
type of word separation. [12]  Even the words in the picturially
written inscription on so-called Phaistos Disk from the Minoans on the
island of Crete are separated by lines.

TRACE 6.  The Spiral symbols:  An ivory artifact having one centrally
located large spiral and three pairs of right and left turning
"spiral" motives have been found at Mal'ta (Ma-AL-aTA) near the Lake
Baikal, Altay Mountains (Central Asia). [13]  Regarding these items,
see also Joseph Campbell's book. [14]  The artifact has been dated
to be some 15,000 years old.  Together with this artifact, other
ornamental artifacts such as ivory birds (geese or swans), beads, etc.
have also been found in the same area all dated 15,000 years old.
[15]   The right-left turning spiral pairs engraved on rocks and many
other mediums have been found all over the world. It has also been
used as ornament at the roof tops of ancient buildings and similarly
on the capital of Ionic columns. It seems that these spirals are
representation of a religious concept.  It may be thought of as
representations of the Sun and the Moon which were regarded as the
right and left eyes of the sky-Father-God. For example the one shown
on the shoulders of the two griffins located on either side of the
throne in the palace of Knossos of the Minoan ruler in the island of
Crete is very much a stylized "eye" which is made with interspiralling
of white and dark colors. [16]  Of course it is also a stylized symbol
of the sun. White and dark represent the duality aspect of the ancient
Turanian Sky-God OGUZ religion. Such spirals are also found on the
megaliths in Ireland, [17] and and at Carnac in Brittany, France,
and the island of Malta in the mediterranean. [18], [19]  Thus, the
ancient spirals drawn on rocks and other medium provide another trace
of the movements of Turanian peoples.  The Minoan seals from the
island of Crete are full of many stylized "spiral" motives. [20]

TRACE 7.  THE "GRIFFIN" or "Griffin." [21]  A "GRIFFIN" is a
mythological animal figure having two or three animal figures in one
body.  They have been defined as:  "monster half lion and half eagle".
The term "MONSTER" is actually an anagram of Turkish "MANASTUR" (Men
As TUR) meaning  "I am peerless TUR" defining the ancient Turanian
trinity "Sky-God" having three heads in a body, that is,
Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God.

Many forms of griffins have been made by ancient Turanian peoples. For
example a very vivid example of this is the Etruscan "CHIMERA". Many
Minoan seals are engraved with figures of griffins. For example the
ones found on Figure 233 in the book by Simon Davis and the sun symbol
[22] are very much the same as the ones found on Pazyryk carpet. 
Additionally, pictures are in the so-called "animal style" of Central

Griffin motives in ancient art is a Turanian concept based on the
trinity aspect of the Turkic Sky-God.  "EAGLE" is "KARTAL" in Turkish
which is hiding the name "KOR aTa-AL" meaning "Fire Father Red"
referring to the Sun-God.  Similarly "ARSLAN" is the name for Lion in
Turkish.  The name ARSLAN hides the Turkish expression "ER AS ALA HAN"
meaning "Peerless Man Spotted Lord" which refers to Sky-father God And
the Moon-God. Thus the trinity aspect of the ancient Turanian Sky-God
was expressed with such animal names.

It must be noted that the famed 2500 year old PAZYRYK rug [23], the
oldest known Turkish woollen carpet, dated  5th century B.C. and
discovered inside a frozen tomb in Central Asia portrays many of these
so-called "griffins" along the border of the carpet.

Presently even the Turkic Autonomous Republic of NOGAY in Russia has a
griffin figure on their national flag. [24]

Tamara Talbot Rice provides samples of griffins in the art of Seljuk
Turks. [25] .  One of the chief characteristics of such Turanian
griffins is a "comma", i.e., "," or "crescent" shaped "wing"
embellishment attached to the body at the shoulders.   The earlier
versions have "crescent" shaped wings.  This is found in most of the
griffins found in the ancient Middle East and Mediterranean area.
Including those by the Etruscans.

Another similar example of such beings is the Greek mythological
"Centaur" which I regard as another form of a griffin.  

The name "CENTAUR" is said to come from Latin "CENTAURUS" which is
said to be from Greek "KENTAUROS". They are regarded as descendants of
Ixion. [26] Ixion in Greek mythology is a Tessalian king and father
of the Centaurs, who was punished by Zeus for his love for Hera by
being tied to a perpetually revolving wheel in Hades." [27] Larousse
World Mythology defines it as "one who was guilty of attempting to
violate Hera, was fastened to a wheel of fire that turned in the air".
[28]  Thus Ixion must be the Sun. The so-called Greek mythological
"KENTAUROS" is defined as "half man and half horse". In view of this
background information, I say the name "KENTAUROS" is anagrammatized
from a Turkish expression. It is interesting to note that when the
Greek name  KENTAUROS is decrypted letter-by-letter as "KUN AT ER OS"
is an anagram of Turkish  "KUN AT ER US" (Gün At-Er Us) meaning "Sun
Horse-Man wise" which defines the half man and half horse aspect of
"KENTAUROS".  The Turkish composite name "AT-ER" means "Horse - Man".
But this name "KUN AT ER US" is also Turkish expression "KUN ATa ER
US" meaning "Sun-Father is Man-Wise" or "Sun-Father is God-Oz" which
defines the ancient Turanian Sky-God Oguz.

Another Greek version of Centaur is "BUCENTAUR" which is defined as
one of a race of  monsters, having the head, arms and torso of a man
united to the body and legs of a bull/ox. Its Greek form is
"Boukentauros" and Italian form "Bucentoro". [29] Its etymology is
said to be from Greek "bous" meaning "bull" + "kentauros" meaning
"Centaure".  The Greek term "bous" meaning "bull" is from Turkish
"BOA" meaning "bull".  The ancient Turanians used the bull (Turkish
OKUS, English OX) as their icon for their Sky God. Thus,
"Boukentauros", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "BOE KUN TUR AUS",
is made up from Turkish words "BOA(bull) + KUN (sun) + TUR (god) + AUS
(Oguz)" meaning "Bull Sun is GOD Oguz" or alternatively "BOA KÜN
OGUSTUR" meaning "Bull is Sun God Oguz".  Thus while "BOA" makes the
"bull" part of the body,  "KÜN-TUR OGUZ" or "KÜN OGUZTUR" make the
"human" part of half-man and half bull mythological being.  Thus,
"BUCENTAUR" is again a personification of the ancient Turanian Sky-god
and the name is made from Turkish words contrary to common belief that
it is Greek.  Other forms of these names in other Indo-European
languages are also anagrammatized forms of Turkish sources.

TRACE 8. The Sphinx:   Defined as a "Monster having typically a lions
body, wings, and the head and bust of a woman; specifically, the
Sphinx of Thebes, who proposed a riddle to all passers and upon their
failure to guess it destroyed them.  Oedipus guessed the riddle, the
Sphinx slew herself, and he became king of Thebes.  The riddle: What
creature walks in the morning upon four feet, at noon upon two, at
evening upon three".  The Answer: Man, as a baby on hands and knees,
later on his feet, and in old age with a staff.  2. A person of
inscrutable  character and purposes; any person or monster thought of
as like the sphinxs.  3. Egypt, Archaeol. An image of a recumbent lion
having the head of a man (an androsphinx, as the Sphinx at Giza
representing Harmachis, the morning sun), a ram, or a hawk." [30]

It is most interesting to note that this riddle is also reported with
six different versions in Turkish as a Turkish riddle among some 14000
riddles that Prof. Ilhan Basgöz has reported. [31]

It is also important to note that the name Thebes is a riddled name:
In one meaning it is the ancient Masarian head city (capital city).
THEBES is an anagram of Turkish TEPE" meaning "the head".

THEBES was the "head city" of ancient southern Masar (Egypt).
Additionally, THEBES refers to the "head" of man.  In the given story,
the statement "Oedipus became a king to Thebes" is itself a riddle.
"OEDIPUS" when decrypted as "O DIPE US", name shows itself to be an
anagram of Turkish "O TEPE US" meaning "it is the wisdom of the head"
which rules human beings.  This revelation also explains partly the
so-called mythological Greek story of "OEDIPUS" which is so complex a
riddle that it has not been solved so far.

The Sphinx at Giza is said to represent the name "Harmachis" meaning
"the morning sun", a ram, or a hawk. The "morning sun" is the
"magnificent fire eye" that is born each morning.  With this
background information, we have the following meanings for "Harmachis":

a) In the first meaning, "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA CHIS") is an anagram
of Turkish "KOR MA GÖZ" meaning "Fire magnificent eye" referring to
the sun;

b) In the second meaning of being a "ram", "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA
CHIS") is an anagram of Turkish expression "ER MA KOCh" (Er Ma koç)
meaning "Magnificent Ram Man"; and

c) in the third meaning being a "hawk", "HARMACHIS" is an anagram of
the Turkish expression  "HUR MA KUSh" meaning "Free Magnificent Bird"
which refers to all "birds of pray" and also the "Sun".  Hawk is one
such bird.

d) Additionally, the name "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA CHIS") is an anagram
of Turkish expression "KOR MA GUZ" ("Kor Ma Oguz") meaning "Fire
Magnificient OGUZ" referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-God SUN,
and/or "ER MA GUZ" (Er Ma Oguz) meaning "Man Magnificent Oguz"
referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-Father-God.

All of these names define the ancient Turanian Sky-God in a
mythological manner but all in Turkish. It must be noted that the
ancient Masarian sky-god was regarded as a "Hawk god", i.e "HOR" or in
Greek "HORUS" god.  It is interesting to note that "HORUS" is very
similar to HOROZ which is the Turkish name for a "rooster".

Thus both the "Griffin" and the "Sphinx" motives in art objects are
the personification of the ancient Turanian Sky-God.  These art
objects are found throughout the ancient world and are one of the
traces of Tur/Turk peoples.  The Great Sphynx of Giza is a most famous
evidence of this Turanian trace.  

Turkic Sphinx figure examples are found in the book by Tamara Talbot
Rices. [32].

TRACE 9. Turanian double bend bow:  The Phaistos disk from the island
of Crete, a Minoan art object from the Minoan period, shows the
Turanian double-bent bow on the starting point of the outer circle
around the disk indicating that Tur/Turk peoples were there and the
civilization left by them were Turkic. The reader should see a picture
of the Phaistos disk. [33]  The double bent bow was another symbolic
trace that ancient Tur/Turk peoples left behind.  This symbol can be
observed in many artifacts all over the ancient world.

The double-bent structure of the Turkish bow enables the user to shoot
his arrow to double the distance as compared to the distance that one
can achieve with an ordinary bow.

Etruscan art shows many examples of the Turkic double-bent bow used by
Etruscan horse riding soldiers. In fact, the Etruscan horse-riding
soldiers knew the Turkish way of turning back and shooting an arrow on
an oncoming enemy while he was riding away from the enemy. [34]  This
was one of the most skilful and effective Turkic fighting tactics in
ancient times. While galloping away on his horse, the enemy would
think he was panicking and retreating but really the Turk horseman was
enticing his enemy to follow him into a hidden encirclement trap.  It
was a refined tactical maneuver.

TRACE 10. The ancient Turanian "animal style" [35]  of art is not
only local to Central Asia and Eastern Eurasia, but also to other
places as well among which is the islands of Aegean Sea, for example,
the Island of Crete.  Figures drawn on many seals left over from the
Minoan civilization in Crete are evidences of it. [36]

In this regard the so-called Scythian golden art work found throughout
Asia should be compared. [37]

TRACE 11. The "Bull" motive found in many ancient cultures of Asia,
Europe, Anatolia, Middle East and North Africa are the remnants of the
ancient Turkish OGUZ religion whose icon was the Bull (OKUZ).

I could mention many other traces left over from ancient Tur/Turk
peoples. However, these should be sufficient to prove my point.  I am
glad that you brought the subject up by your question.

3.  You asked:

> Also, the Eurasian steppes were
dominated by
> Iranian sprakers (Scytians, etc.) before the arrival of
> peoples. Enlighten me please. I am a new member to this group,

SAKA (Iskit) people so-called "Scythians) were Central Asiatic Turkish
peoples.  Turks regard them as one of their ancient ancestors.
Regarding "Scytians" as "Iranian speaking" peoples is a misinformation
that has been spread without being questioned. So-called "Scythians",
Turkish "ISKIT" and/or "SAKA" Turks, were Turkic speaking Turkish
people. [38] It must be noted that there is a play on the word
"Iranian" here.  The word "Iranian" does not mean that all of the
people of Iran were always and totally so-called "Indo-European"
stock.  Even in present day almost half the population of Iran is
comprised of Turkish peoples. In ancient times Iranian geography was
inhabited by Turanian peoples before the arrivals of "Indo-Europeans".
The so-called "Iranian Saka" peoples were not Indo-European although
they have been claimed as such by some writers. The ancient Iranian
Mede people of Medeans were Turkish speaking Tur peoples. Their name
comes from Turkish "METE". The ancient people of Turukkus on Zagros
mountains were Turkish peoples. Even presently KASHGAI Turks are the
inhabitants of the Zagros mountains.

Presently in Siberia the Turkish Autonomous Republic of Sakha still
carry the name of "SAKA".  The so-called "Sakhalin" islands in the
eastern coast of Asia carry the name "Saka".  The name "SAKHALIN"
comes from Turkish expression "SAKA ILI" meaning "Saka land" (Saka
country).  The sea between the Sakhalin islands and the mainland Asia
was called "TATAR Sea." 

But the Saka Turks have been in many other geographies. The fact is
that the second founding king of the ancient Masar (so-called "Egypt")
was named "SAKA" and they were from Central Asian Tur/Turk peoples.
As I pointed out earlier in my paper that even ancient Masar's (MISIR)
founding king was named MENES (MANAS).  Even the title of the famed
Pharoh" called "KUFU" is actually Turkich "KAFA" meaning "head".  So,
the Saka Turks were also in north Africa.

The name of the island SICILY is from Turkish "SAKA ILU" meaning "Saka
country" (Iskit country).   The Latin name "TRINACRIAN" means
"Sicilian" and the Latin name "TRINACRIA" meant Sicily. [39] The
Latin name "TRINACRIA", when decrypted letter-by-letter as
"TRANCI-R=IA" is an anagram of Turkish expression "TuRANCI eR ÖYÜ"
meaning "Home of Turanian man" which verifies the name "SAKA ILI"
(Sicily). Even this name verifies that Saka people of ancient Sicily
were Tur/Turk people. 

The native "Pelasgians" of ancient "Greece", that is, "Ayhanistan" or
"Yunanistan" were kins to Ionians and Trojans.  The name "SAKA" is
embedded in the name "PELASGIAN". The name "SCAMANDER", i.e., the name
of the small river flowing by ancient city of Troy and immortalized by
Homer in his renown epic ILIAD, carry the Turkic name "SAKAMAN DERE"
meaning "the Sakaman-brook".  The name "SCAMANDER" is an altered
version of Turkish "SAKAMAN DERE".

The name CORSICA must be from Turkish "KOR SAKA" meaning "Fire Saka"
as believers of the Sun. 

The name SCANDIA or SCANDIUM for "Scandinavia" is from Turkish
"SaKa-hAN-aTa ÖYÜ" meaning "Home of Father Lord Saka".  The name
SCANDIUM "SaKa hANDI ÖYÜM" meaning "My home (country) was SAKA house
(land)". Turkish word "Han" means both "lord" and also "palace" like
house. The Scandinavian word Thor/Tor/Tyr meaning "God" is nothing but
the Turkish name TUR which stands not only for the ancient Turanian
Sky-God but also is the ethnic name for Tur/Turk peoples after their
Sky-God TUR.  It is no wonder that there are so many runic inscribed
stone monuments strewn all over "Scandia". Those stones are their
Turkic trace.

Even the name "SCOTIA" for SCOTLAND most likely comes from Turkish
"ISKIT ÖYÜ" meaning "home of Iskit (Scot)"  or "Home of the "Scots".
It can also be taken as Turkish "SAKA ATA ÖYÜ" meaning "Father Saka
home".  Turkish ISKIT and Scotchman's term SKOT are very much the
same.  This affinity is also verified by Scotland's ancient stone
structures which are the same as the ones in Central Asia. [40]
Ancient stone structures of Scotland are given with excellent pictures
in a book by Iain Zaczek and David Lyons. [41].  

Similarly compare the ancient Scotland's "minaret" like structure
[42] with Seljuk minaret like structures (see p. 217 Plate 1, p. 232
plate No. 20 the ramparth of the castle). [43]

In the same book by Iain Zaczek and David Lyons, one should compare
ancient Scot art (page 108, designs on a Cross slab),i.e., the
interwoven animal figures and spirals with the Turkish Seljuk art work
in Tamara Talbot Rices Book Plate No. 44 and 57. Similarly with the
Irelands art works. [44]

The art works and structures of ancient peoples of Scotland and the
art works and structures of Tur peoples of Central Asia are amazingly
the same.  These cannot be attributed to coincidences.


Dear Akhilesh, with all these background information, I demonstrated
sufficient number of visible "traces" left behind by the Tur/Turk
peoples of ancient times. I also showed how widely the Tur/Turk
presence was spread in the geograpy of the ancient world.  From all
this we get a glimpse of how much obliteration, suppression,
assimilation and usurpation the ancient Turanian peoples and their
civilization, that is, their ancient religion, language, culture and
achievements, have been subjected to during the recent several
millennia. What I have said in this paper are quite contrary to the
established claims that readers are accustomed to read. A wide variety
of things that I have indicated above are the results of carefully
scrutinized research that I have been doing for a long time. I hope
this will help to satisfy some of your questiones that you rightfully


[1]      Hendrik Willem van Loon, "The Story Of Mankind", published by
Pocket Books New  York, 1973, p. 50-52.

[2]      Encyclopaedia Britannica (EB), 1963, Vol. 1, p. 187.

[3]      Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg (photographs), Searching For The
Scythians", National Geographic, Vol. 190, No. 3, September 1996, p. 60-61.

[4]      Kamil Hüseyinoglu, "<<Turan - Türk>> ve <<GUN-GUZ>> Etnonimleri
Hagginda Geydler" Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi" By Türk
Dünyasini Arastirma Vakfi (TDAV), No. 155, Kasim 1999, s. 53.

[5]      Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari, Ankara, 1987.

[6]      Encyclopaedia britannica, 1963, Vol. 4, p. 928. And the Plates I
and II with "menhir" pictures.

[7]      "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr.,
American Heritage Publishing Co., Inc., New York, 1977, p. 51.

[8]      Mustafa Gökmen, "Eski Türk Kitabeleri", Nakislar Yayinevi,
Istanbul, 1981, p. 99.

[9]      Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 624.

[10]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland",
Prospero Books, 1998, p. 24-27, 54-55, 57, and others.

[11]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland",
1998, p. 33, p. 48, p. 64-65 (balbal like), p. 70, p. 85 The Royal
Seat of Tara (TURA), and p. 144.

[12]      Joseph Campbell, "Historical Atlas of World Mythology, Vol. I The
way of The Anymal Powers" Harper & Row, Publishers New York, 1988, p.
87 Fig. 155.

[13]      National Geographic, Vol. 174, No. 4, October 1988, p. 440.

[14]      Joseph Campbell, "Historical Atlas of World Mythology, Vol. I The
way of The Anymal Powers" Harper & Row, Publishers New York, 1988, p. 72.

[15]      National Geographic, Vol. 174, No. 4, October 1988, p. 472.

[16]      "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr.,
American Heritage Publishing Co., Inc., New York, 1977, p. 75

[17]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland",
1998, p. 86, 87, 90, and p. 152 two ying-yan spirals.

[18]      "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr., p. 46-47.

[19]      Colin Renfrew and Adam Woolfitt (Photograps), "Ancient Europe Is
Older Than we Thought", National Geographic, Vol. 152, No.5, November
1977, p. 619.

[20]      Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and
Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg,
1967, p. 169-179.

[21]      Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 438.

[22]      Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and
Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg, 1967.

[23]      Nina Hyde and Cary Woolinsky (photogrphs), "Wool - Fabric of
History", National Geographic Vol. 173, No. 5, May 1988, p. 558-559.

[24]      Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi", TDAV, No. 201, Eylul 2003.
See Turkic flags on the front cover page of this publication.

[25]      Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", London Thames
and Hudson, London, 1961, p. 172, p. 245 Plate 56, p. 246 Plate 57,
59, p. 249 Plate 64 (top rosette an plate 65.

[26]      1. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 164.
2. Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963,
Vol. 1, p. 215.

[27]      Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963,
Vol. 1, p. 679.

[28]      Pierre Grimal (editor), "Larousse World Mythology", Paul Hamlyn,
London - New Yorkd, 1969, p. 137.

[29]      Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963,
Vol. 1, p. 173.

[30]      Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 957.

[31]      Ilhan Bashgöz, "Türk Bilmeceleri II", Kültür Bakanligi Basvuru
Kitaplari, Ankara, 1993, s. 618, Bilmece No. 939.

[32]      Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", London Thames
and Hudson, London, 1961, p. 243 plate 47, p. 244 Plate 51.

[33]      Steven Roger Fisher, "Glyph Breaker", Copernicus, New York, 1997,
see Side A picture of the Phaistos Disk after p. 117, (Bow and arrow symbols).

[34]      1. Werner Keller, "The Etruscans", Alfred A. Knopf, New Yotk,
1974, p.118 (London, British Museum), ("The mounted Bowman, detail
from the lid of a bronze urn).
2. Polat Kaya , "Etrüsk, Kartaca ve Türk Dünyasi Baglantisi, Etrüsk
Pirgi Yazitlarinin Okunmasi", Türk Dünyasi Tarih ve Kültür Dergisi,
TDAV, Mayis 1999, p. 54.
3. Michael Grant, "The Etruscans", Charles Scribner's Sons, New York,
1980.  See illustration entitled: Amazon from the rim of a cauldron
from Capua".

[35]      Nina Hyde and Cary Woolinsky (photogrphs), "Wool - Fabric of
History", National Geographic Vol. 173, No. 5, May 1988, p. 559.

[36]      Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and
Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg,
1967, pages 190- 215.

[37]      Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg (photographs), Searching For The
Scythians", National Geographic, Vol. 190, No. 3, September 1996, p.
54- 58, 59, 64-65.

[38]      Dr. Ilhami Durmus, "ISKITLER (SAKALAR"", Türk Kültürünü Arastirma
Enstitüsü, Ankara, 1993,

[39]      Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 1069.

[40]      1.  Kamil Hüseyinoglu, "<<Turan - Türk>> ve <<GUN-GUZ>>
Etnonimleri Hagginda Geydler" Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi" By
Türk Dünyasini Arastirma Vakfi (TDAV), No. 155, Kasim 1999, s. 53.
2. Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Ankara, 1987.

[41]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland",
Prospero Books, 1998, p. 24-27, 54-55, 57, and others.

[42]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland",,
p. 113.

[43]      Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", p. 217 Plate 1,
p. 232 Plate 20.

[44]      Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland",
1998, p. 152.

Best wishes to all,

Polat Kaya

December 18, 2003

Kamil KARTAL wrote:
> From:   Akhilesh Pillalamarri <valardil@...>
Date:  Wed Nov 26, 2003  5:23 pm
> Subject:  About the
Turkish and Greek post
> That post, built on
nothing I knew well before is very good and
> almost totally convinces me,
congratulations to the author of it.
> However, my objection is to the
fact that the Turks actually appear
> near Greece (in Antolia, where they
replaced the Greek-speakers)
> around 1050-1100 A.D. while the Mycerian
civilization was between
> 1400-1200 B.C. The Turic peoples did not leave
their homeland until
> 600 AD. So there is a date discrepency. Please
explain, though in my
> understanding the first "Turks" were assimilated
into Greek culture
> very early on; but there should be a trace of their
journey from
> central asia at least. Also, the Eurasian steppes were
dominated by
> Iranian sprakers (Scytians, etc.) before the arrival of
> peoples. Enlighten me please. I am a new member to this group,
> --- In, Polat Kaya <tntr@...> wrote:
> >
Dave and all,
> >
> > Greetings. This paper is in response to
Dave's questions directed at
> > me. It became necessarily long in
order to explain Turkish related
> > background which has been blurred
by mountains of disinformation.


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